Obviously, I’ve become a bit partisan, so I’m looking for the most impartial way to describe tonight’s Democratic debate.
“Drive -by?” “Hit job?” “Rub out?” No, that wouldn’t be fair. I’m going to have to go with “clusterfuck.”
I’ve watched it twice now. For 40 minutes, Charles Gibson, George Stephanopoulis, and Hillary Clinton tag-teamed Barack Obama on the burning issue of “bitter” voters, the previously burning issue of the Reverend Wright, the even more previously burning issue of lapel pins, and the hitherto unburning issue of some guy Obama kind of knew who was part of the Weather Underground when Obama was in 3rd grade.
Clinton considered these all “serious issues.” The one Clinton-oriented issue that was raised in that time, the “I took sniper fire” gaffe, was not considered “serious” by Obama, who nobly dismissed it as another distraction from all the real issues (every one of which was not asked about during those first 40 minutes, no matter how many times Obama pointed this out).
Throughout all this, we were treated to reaction shots from Senator Clinton’s gallery, consisting of backers like Chelsea Clinton and Ed Rendell and Wesley Clark. They had a special light to color them in amongst the rest of the blue-lit Orwellian throng. I don’t know where the corresponding Obama gallery was, and I don’t think ABC knew or cared.
Those of you who read this blog regularly know that I’m the farthest thing from a conspiracy theorist, and I won’t start now. But tonight’s convocation had all the hallmarks of one of those “special” banquets occasionally favored by mob families.
I can’t open an investigation, but I thought I’d open the floor and see what you all thought. Perhaps I’m imagining it. I’ve imagined things before, but this time I - …huh? Sorry. Someone’s at the door. At this hour? Hold on, I’ll be righ
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sardou
April 16, 2008 at 9:54 pm
1a completely accurate representation of what passed for a “debate” tonight, but with the following caveat: obama was passive, inarticulate (for him), and seemingly willing to endure this silliness without any stern rebuke. how he had the patience to suffer the first 45 turgid minutes i can’t imagine. is this a good quality?
RandyH
April 16, 2008 at 11:30 pm
2It was an attempted lynching on live television. That’s what it was. But were they successful? I doubt it. We’ll see…
DaveD
April 17, 2008 at 3:30 am
3I didn’t watch too much, nor too closely, but I did catch the part where they were discussing Obama’s lack of a flag pin. Try as I might I failed to see where Hillary was wearing hers. I suppose everyone else was wearing one; I just didn’t notice.
Pope Benny 16
April 17, 2008 at 3:57 am
4OK. Now that the drugs have worn off, I have a better idea of what’s going on. That, plus one of the agents guarding me is Opus Dei (you’d think the Americans would have checked about that sort of thing) and he’s spilling his guts to me - as the saying goes. I’m being kept in an undisclosed location in Pennsylvania, just across the border from Maryland. (Those guys did drive fast for 45 minutes to get this far from the airport.) I’m being kept in this bunker for protection. Apparently, the hand gun/”deranged lunatic being denied mental health care” ratio is much higher than the government is comfortable admitting and this was the only way to guarantee my protection. One of the six body doubles the Vatican supplies each Pope with, is standing in for me at all the public gatherings. These body doubles are rather interesting, by the way. These are priest who share a close body type with the current Pope, who volunteer to undergo plastic surgery and all other indignities needed to make them look just like me. This trip to America is the first time the Vatican felt that the threat level was in the red and so they sprang into Operation Pope-a-Dope. Being sealed up in a concrete bunker is no way to spend a birthday, I tell you. Plus, there’s no cake!
dee
April 17, 2008 at 4:25 am
5I don’t care about flag pins or sniper fire in Tuzla. I care about the war in Iraq, health care, global warming, terrorism, the economy, the international food supply and a hundred other topics I could list. But apparently they aren’t important enough to ask two people vying for the most important job in the world about. Thanks, Disney/ABC, for providing absolutely nothing to the political discourse in this country.
What a farce.
cooper
April 17, 2008 at 4:45 am
6I think that if there were even a lingering whiff of integrity in the MSM, George Stephanopoulis, a former member of the Bill Clinton administration, would not have been a part of this debate. That may explain some of the piling on.
sharon
April 17, 2008 at 4:48 am
7I don’t have cable, and haven’t watched teevee since before 9/11, except for movies on DVD. Why are we surprised? The news division of any media outlet is required to show a profit, just like the entertainment division. If, in fact, they are still separate divisions–in many cases, they aren’t. A handful of megacorporations own all our media outlets.
Newspapers and, by extension, all news outlets, are the only non-governmental entities explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. (Dave vE can correct me if I’m wrong.) They have/had a unique role in our democracy, but they have sold it for a mess of porridge.
Tim Robbins recently had some choice words for the National Association of Broadcasters. I wonder if anyone at the NAB really listened?
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/82510/
sharon
April 17, 2008 at 4:50 am
8I guess I’ll try again without the html tags:
I don’t have cable, and haven’t watched teevee since before 9/11, except for movies on DVD. Why are we surprised? The news division of any media outlet is required to show a profit, just like the entertainment division. If, in fact, they are still separate divisions–in many cases, they aren’t. A handful of megacorporations own all our media outlets.
Newspapers and, by extension, all news outlets, are the only non-governmental entities explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. (Dave vE can correct me if I’m wrong.) They have/had a unique role in our democracy, but they have sold it for a mess of porridge.
Tim Robbins recently had some choice words for the National Association of Broadcasters. I wonder if anyone at the NAB really listened?
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/82510/
sharon
April 17, 2008 at 4:51 am
9My comment is being blocked, and I don’t know why. I’ve taken out all the html tags.
sharon
April 17, 2008 at 4:51 am
10I’ll try again without the html tags or the paragraphs.
I don’t have cable, and haven’t watched teevee since before 9/11, except for movies on DVD. Why are we surprised? The news division of any media outlet is required to show a profit, just like the entertainment division. If, in fact, they are still separate divisions–in many cases, they aren’t. A handful of megacorporations own all our media outlets. Newspapers and, by extension, all news outlets, are the only non-governmental entities explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. (Dave vE can correct me if I’m wrong.) They have/had a unique role in our democracy, but they have sold it for a mess of porridge. Tim Robbins recently had some choice words for the National Association of Broadcasters. I wonder if anyone at the NAB really listened?
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/82510/
sharon
April 17, 2008 at 4:52 am
11I don’t have cable, and haven’t watched teevee since before 9/11, except for movies on DVD. Why are we surprised? The news division of any media outlet is required to show a profit, just like the entertainment division. If, in fact, they are still separate divisions–in many cases, they aren’t. A handful of megacorporations own all our media outlets. Newspapers and, by extension, all news outlets, are the only non-governmental entities explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. (Dave vE can correct me if I’m wrong.) They have/had a unique role in our democracy, but they have sold it for a mess of porridge. Tim Robbins recently had some choice words for the National Association of Broadcasters. I wonder if anyone at the NAB really listened?
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/82510/
Fanny R.
April 17, 2008 at 5:09 am
12And I’m sure it’s a good comment, dear. Please try again later. (Heh, heh, heh)
Zee Man
April 17, 2008 at 5:52 am
13Well, there’s always hope, I suppose….
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/04/14/tomo/
BTW, don’t even try driving around DC while the Pope’s in town. The traffic! Oy.
sharon
April 17, 2008 at 6:01 am
14The infotainment division of most media outlets abdicated its Constitutionally ordained responsibility a long time ago. Tim Robbins recently had some choice words to say about this in a speech to the National Association of Broadcasters. I’ll let you find it yourselves, in case that’s what Fanny is objecting to. It was published on alternet [dot] org a day or two ago.
Steve
April 17, 2008 at 7:08 am
15Face it. They’re both done for.
The best thing that they could do for the Party (and maybe the country) is to both withdraw their candidacies in favor of John Edwards or, hell, Dennis Kucinich, for all the hope that the Dems have of winning this mishigas.
Once more, the Dems have snatched defeat from the gaping jaws of victory.
Feh.
It's Pat!
April 17, 2008 at 8:58 am
16My take is BHO is waiting to see how the PA primary goes. He doesn’t want to torch HRC if he doesn’t have to - I think he wants to wait this out and see if he can focus on McBush. I would much rather BHO start acting as the preemptive nominee and push back hard.
Having wrote that, I also think the MSM is doing a disservice by allowing HRC to somehow appear as above the fray when she is causing the fray.
I’m with Dee - the Dems need to focus on the critical issues and stop being involved worrying about crap like lapel pins.
Dave von Ebers
April 17, 2008 at 12:26 pm
17Well, I couldn’t bring myself to watch it (thank God for the kids’ homework!) … but now I have to say I’m more than a little nauseated. I just keep telling myself, You have to vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is. You have to vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is. You have to vote for the …
Well, you get the idea.
But this whole process sure is makin’ my ass tired, as the expression goes.
And Wesley Clark? Yeah, I respect him ‘n all, but let’s not kid ourselves. It’s not like the guy’s a liberal. Cabinet material - sure; but he and I would probably agree on little other than the obvious: The current administration has been an abysmal failure.
Point is, Wesley Clark’s endorsement shouldn’t mean much to liberals, is all’s I’m sayin’ …
piglet
April 17, 2008 at 12:48 pm
18Adam, you watched that thing twice? woof. Were you sober?
cooper beat me to the most glaring pile of dogpoop in the way of anyone’s attempt to claim impartiality.
If I hear another word about lapel pins, I swear…
You know, if this election does not go to Obama, as it righteously should, there will be a whole new tribe of bitter folk, clinging to their, I don’t know, keyboards and booze, I guess.
tess
April 17, 2008 at 12:54 pm
19John Edwards, nothin’. I wanted Bill Richardson to win just so I could see Lou Dobb’s head explode.
Julia
April 17, 2008 at 1:22 pm
20Honestly? I haven’t paid attention to the debates since they started being run by the media instead of the League of Women Voters.
What I can’t figure out is why the candidates don’t have enough balls to simply declare any particular event a farce, and walk out.
Jim (OJNTNJ)
April 17, 2008 at 1:38 pm
21Piglet, I want a lapel pin that simply states: patriotism ≠ knee-jerk jingoism.
Then I can jab the next person with it that complains about the APPALLING lack of flag pins on their opposing candidate.
hedera
April 17, 2008 at 1:42 pm
22I didn’t watch it (I can’t stand to look at these things). I read the summary in the paper this morning. It interests me how Barack Obama keeps coming back to the real issues, and nobody is listening to him - except maybe the voters? You think? The outcome in Pennsylvania will be really interesting.
Dave vE, I stand by my stated position that I will vote for the Democratic nominee even, if it’s Satan running under his own name. But if that nominee isn’t BHO, I’ll be holding my nose with one hand, which will make it hard to fill out the ballot…
Pope Benny 16
April 17, 2008 at 3:07 pm
23Well, now I know why Franco wanted so badly for me to wear these hideous brown loafers on my trip. The radio that these G-Men have blaring into my ear had a story today about the Pope’s red shoes. The body double is wearing my shoes! I hope you heard him speak today. What a rrrrrrrrrrrrridiculous German accent that schweinhund has. Franco has been working on my elocution for months and I can now sound like a down on his luck Iowan dirt farmer or a for real southern redneck (without the obligatory cuss words, of course.) The Boston accent - I find it to be unfathomable. Well that’s what summer school is for anyway.
Now this will seal it. If you hear a news story about Pope Benedict meeting secretly with a group of sexual abuse survivors, you’ll know, for sure, that this Pope is a fake. I’d never do that; the very thought of being in the same room as those unclean fornicators, makes my skin crawl.
Dave von Ebers
April 17, 2008 at 5:50 pm
24Piglet, you say “clinging to their … keyboards and booze” like it’s a bad thing. That’s how I spend most of my days.
And Hedera, I’m with you.
David
April 17, 2008 at 6:34 pm
25Anybody care to guess what Angry David thinks about that collective dreckhead attempt to take down the Democratic frontrunner? I read where Bill Clinton thinks younger voters are easily fooled, or some such shit. I wonder if that includes all the younger voters who have been trending Democratic in recent election cycles? Do the Clintons really so lust for the White House that they will stop at nothing, say anything, and consort with Rovians in their attempt to destroy Obama’s candidacy?
I’m with Dave and Hedera. I guess you saw, Dave, that The Boss endorsed Obama, saying that Obama is about the things his songs are about. OK, Bruce, bring in as many Keystone State primary votes as you possibly can for BHO.
Meanwhile, Cheney Cheney (the first Cheney is a verb).
Sam (Lemuel)
April 17, 2008 at 6:37 pm
26I take it back. There are computers at the McCain HQ - 3 Packard Bell 386 museum pieces, grinding out data, running DOS, and smoking badly. Just for grins, I drove up to a scenic overlook in Maryland on my lunch break the other day, fired up my laptop and lifted the lid off of computer security at the home office. Remarkably easy. And then ….. I got an idea!!!
The McCain for President campaign does have a website that they’ve out sourced to a Russian Mafia gang in Irkutsk Oblast. I thought, “Why not hack into the website and have some fun?” As you may know, there is a section of the website dedicated to his wife (and sugar momma), Cindy Hensley McCain. She has all sorts of interesting things to look at there, such as Cindy’s Travelogue, her long resume of volunteer works and good deeds, and, until yesterday, a link to some of her favorite recipes, “handed down from the many generations of homespun Hensley cooks”. I replaced them verbatim with a few recipes from the Food Network site, the back of a Quaker Oats box and a Rachel Ray signature dish. Somehow (wink, wink!) the press found out about the stolen recipes and had a field day with it. Of course, the campaign blamed it all on an incompetent intern, who was roundly booed, shunned, and thrown into stocks by the other campaign workers. Too bad for him. He seemed like a halfway decent guy to me, but that’s probably why they framed him and then dropped him off a cliff - being somewhat kind, smart, and funny, he just didn’t fit in with the rest of the crew. I hate that happened to him, but, as Mr. DeLay is fond of saying, “Damn ain’t politics fun!!”
SallyMutant
April 17, 2008 at 8:57 pm
27Tess, yes! And Richardson has great cred in both domestic and foreign experience. Plus, we get a westerner to go against the wild west’s man from AZ.
Chancing upon the debate last night, channel surfing, my question was, why was there a major broadcast debate at the stage where there are only two candidates? After watching: “Perhaps to help Hillary in the upcoming PA primary” said my brains’ little voice of election-stealing-reason-or-paranoia.
Meanwhile, I hope a clergy abuse survivor kicks Pope Unrat up the arse. (Aside to Arthur fans–do you think Mr. Ratburn, the stuffy, strict teacher is an in-joke for the enjoyment of adults who are fans of “The Blue Angel” and poor doomed Professor Unrath?)
Alley D.
April 17, 2008 at 9:03 pm
28Much ado about nothing. What the dems, it seems, are failing to realize is these sideshows don’t matter, yet they put all their emotional investment in it as if it does.
Kudo’s to Obama not going after Hillary. I think he DOES have a clue that sniping at her over that issue would just further undermine the whole party more than it has already.
I think his decision not to partake disqualifies it as a complete clusterfuck.
This debate business, the punditry, is nothing but middlemen parasites who live off the self-created media process, preaching to their own choirs.
Hannity and Combs does’t make anyone change their minds. John Stewart doesn’t make a right winger turn left. I think Tina Fey was right about him. He’s gone from being a “voice of reason” into a little twaddling, audience-pandering turd on a stick. I never thought he’d start taking himself seriously. The Daily Show really died when he arrived.
Anyway, all this crap doesn’t matter insofar as changing anyone’s minds. They’re made up.
Unfortunately, dems seem to be undermining themselves, while republicans just sit back and bask in their good fortune. It should be the other way around, but… I dunno what happened!
I don’t like ANY of the candidates, but I’ll probably go with McCain since he’s the best overall representative of the democratic party available.
Yes. I know he’s a registered republican. I don’t like it either. : (
Chris Harlan
April 18, 2008 at 12:39 am
29Oh, heavens. Its all okay. This will go to the convention, where twenty three tense and divisive ballots will fail to elect a nominee, when Al Gore will step to the podium, shrug ala Jack Benny, and say “Oh, well. Why not.” Two ballots later we will have our nominee.
I know this. I saw it in my Raisin Bran this morning.
sharon
April 18, 2008 at 3:02 am
30I’ve been getting emails from friends who watched the whole freaking “debate.” One columnist pointed out that the first commercial came 3 minutes into the show. THREE minutes. Charlie and George and ABC “News” rubbed our faces into the realization that we are no longer entitled to be called Citizens. Our rightful role is Consumer, and has since even since before our MBA president told us to go out and shop after 9/11.
Zee Man
April 18, 2008 at 3:46 am
31Gee, Alley D., it sounds like you might be, oh I don’t know ….. “bitter”.
Jim (OJNTNJ)
April 18, 2008 at 5:58 am
32Sharon, it was even worse than your friends may have indicated. I tried livestreaming the debate from a link offered at C&L after work. The stream consisted of two screens. One smaller one that broadcast the actual debate, and one twice as large that tracked the focus group approval of the statements of the candidates. I shut it down after about 5 minutes because it was unwatchable, and watched the debate later at home (Pacific time).
One item I found truly shameful, is that ABC News broke the story about the top level administation discussions of torture, but ABC “News” didn’t bother to pose a question to the candidates about what steps they might take, or even what they might have thought about such discussions.
Dave von Ebers
April 18, 2008 at 6:04 am
33Damn, Chris H., I wish my Raisin Bran would tell me something worthwhile. Though, I’d prefer to know the winning lottery numbers, truth be told.
Still, all I get is static.
alex
April 18, 2008 at 6:23 am
34Actually, I thought that it was more honest that most debates, on the part of the media.
The media doesn’t really care about policy, especially not the details of minor policy issues. In the fall, they won’t cover it. And when major legislation is offered, they certainly won’t delve into i.
They care about controversy, so much that they are willing to gin it up themselves.
Travelgate. Filegate. Vince Foster. Lots of coverage. NAFTA and Hillarycare, rather little meaningful, substantive, honest coverage.
If Obama — and we all know that he is going to be the nominee, right? — wants to talk about to the American people about real policy and important issues, he is going to have to do through a media that will do everything they can to shift the story to scandal, gossip and…well, you get the idea. If Obama couldn’t do it during the debate, then how is he going to do it as president?
Steve
April 18, 2008 at 1:05 pm
35Way to go:
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1422
gillian
April 18, 2008 at 4:46 pm
36Before we hit the road to Beantown, I offer you this cartoon and it would be darned funny if it weren’t so darned true.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/toles_ main.html?name=Toles&date=04182008&type=c
Have a good weekend everyone.
Harold
April 18, 2008 at 5:38 pm
37Eh. Obama had better get used to it. He should think of this as a dress rehearsal for his post-nomination campaign. I think he’ll find that neither complaining about the nature of questions nor suggesting that his opponent drop out of the race will be very effective strategies in the final months of the campaign.
If Hillary Clinton gets the nod at the Convention, it’s a pretty good bet that lots of Obama backers will stick to their word and stomp off and pout on Election Day - or worse, vote Republican, just to whizz in Hillary’s punchbowl. I just hope that if Obama gets the nod, they manage to maintain their enthusiasm all the way through to Election Day and actually remember to vote.
And Lobster help us all the first time President Obama has to back away from a campaign promise, or otherwise demonstrate that he’s both a real human and a politician, too.
Dee
April 18, 2008 at 6:11 pm
38Eh. Obama had better get used to it.
The stupid questions weren’t only aimed at Obama, although he did get the lion’s share. The whole sniper fire in Tuzla is a non-issue for Clinton as far as I’m concerned.
And I don’t object to tough questioning, but for Lobster’s sake let’s have some tough questions about things that matter. How are you going to pay for your proposed health care programs? How can have a relationship with China and ignore Cuba? Would you sign on to the Kyoto agreement on carbon emissions? Do you really believe that the manufacturing jobs that have been outsourced overseas will really come back and if not, just what is the American work force supposed to do? How can we regain “honest broker” status in the Middle East?
Those are tough questions and those are issues that matter. And those are the kind of questions that I hope somebody will ask McCain, too. Because if this kind of nonsense continues, it better be even-handed so we can all hear the details of Cindy’s drug addiction and her stealing from the non-profit she headed.
Sam(Lem)uel
April 18, 2008 at 6:47 pm
39Realizing these guys at McCain Headquarters have never heard of googling someone’s name to double check a resume, I may have let slip that I earned a PhD in Economics from the Wharton School of Business. Purely accidental, I’m sure. Several of the rainmakers here pulled me to one side and pumped me for an economic plan for McCain to put forward today. I forget if I told them he should announce a $400 billion or a $4 trillion tax cut for those making more than $10,000,000 per annum. (Using words like “per annum” impresses the Hell out of these guys.) Having finished our little conclave around 10:30 AM, I slipped into one of the storage rooms, whipped out my Blackberry, and again hacked into the office computers. I doubled my salary and then, figuring my work here was done for today, I took the afternoon off. It was one of those rare and special spring days on the East Coast and Marlene (Rocio) has been after me to drive her to the Maryland shore.
Dale
April 18, 2008 at 7:05 pm
40What Dee said. But with one question that she left out, but which I am sure is burning a hole in her heart as it is mine….”What the hell are you going to do about the Tigers?” Please, let´s keep the overpaid one step forward, eight step back disasters to the Middle East!
tess
April 18, 2008 at 7:33 pm
41I’m agreeing with Dee and Harold — whoever wins this primary had better get used to stupid and irrelevant questions. I’m with Harold in that I’m concerned about whoever wins the primary also loses the other half’s votes on election day: someone needs to just flip a coin and concede because at this rate it ain’t gonna end pretty.
Jason
April 18, 2008 at 8:31 pm
42Steve,
Bill Mahr is just an entertainer, and an apology is just more entertainment.
I’m sure the Catholic church doesn’t honestly care about some semi-retired comedian with a private pointed predelection for beautiful-african american prostitutes, although he might make for a great episode on Dr. Phil.
SallyMutant
April 18, 2008 at 10:04 pm
43Chris H.–Yes, even better than a Richardson pipe-dream. Let him do Jack Benny so we can have that wonderful “Well!. . . ” gesture.
But, though Jack Benny is a god, I think Gore really sounds like Jambi on Pee Wee’s Playhouse; but more het. “Wish? Did somebody wish for a brokered convention and an unbeatable candidate?”
Chris Harlan
April 19, 2008 at 12:19 am
44Dave v E: You just need to know what to mutter over you Raisin Bran, and then it does it all for you.
It was sad hearing about Danny Federici. Nice video on your page. Nice article, too. I got to see the Boss and the E Street Band at the Santa Barbara Bowl just after they released Born To Run. It went on for hours and hours and was hands down the best concert I have ever attended.
just plain Jack
April 19, 2008 at 5:55 am
45Steve, thanks for the link and I must hasten to point out that, if anyone on the planet knows “bigotry”, it’s Bill Donohue.
And I’m sure that after all the columnists listed in that article had taken their shots at Bill Maher for his Pope/Nazi crack, Bill O’Reilly came sneaking in from the right for a late hit and the traditional penis/testicle twist in the pile when no one is looking. He probably marveled at the fact that Maher has two balls and a dick longer and thicker than a useless pencil stub. That must have crushed O’Reilly. The upside for Falafel Boy? - he won’t be able to bring himself to once again get into a situation where he’ll have to pay out another multi million dollar settlement for sexual harassment. The down side for us? - he’ll still have his show on Fixed News, where he’ll continue to yammer and to bar anyone from uttering the name “Keith Olbermann” over an open microphone.
just plain Jack
April 19, 2008 at 6:03 am
46(Somehow, I knew my last comment wouldn’t make it past the censors, so I’ll try again using symbols in the appropriate places. Fanny, you’re an evil rodent.)
Steve, thanks for the link and I must hasten to point out that, if anyone on the planet knows “bigotry”, it’s Bill Donohue.
And I’m sure that after all the columnists listed in that article had taken their shots at Bill Maher, Bill O’Reilly came sneaking in from the right for a late hit and the traditional p@nis/t@sticl@ twist in the pile when no one is looking. He probably marveled at the fact that Maher has two b*lls and a d!ck longer and thicker than a useless pencil stub. That must have crushed O’Reilly. The upside for Falafel Boy? - he won’t be able to bring himself to once again get into a situation where he’ll have to pay out another multi million dollar settlement for s@xual harassment. The down side for us? - he’ll still have his show on Fixed News, where he’ll continue to yammer and to bar anyone from uttering the name “Keith Olbermann” over an open microphone.
Jim (OJNTNJ)
April 19, 2008 at 7:08 am
47Jack, Steve, and Jason, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Maher’s apology included the phrase “panties in a bunch.”
Steve
April 19, 2008 at 10:51 am
48just plain Jack sez
No kidding.
Just for the record, I was doing nothing more than just razzing Mr Felber.
Personally, as a Recovering Catholic myself, I’m in total agreement with Mr Maher’s original statement and am disappointed that he was forced to make an apology.
Chris Harlan
April 19, 2008 at 11:05 am
49Oh, heavens, all this Pope stuff. Other than the use of word Nazi the worst crime in that Bill Maher rant was the astrology joke, followed by the drinking at kid parties joke. After reading that Ratzinger hush-up letter from back in the 60’s, I kind of have to kinda agree with Bill M’s assessment. And Bill’s not my favorite pundit/comedian on the planet. I often disagree with and/or am vaguely offended by him. I’m much more attuned to the “Wait, wait” crowd.
Now there’s a thing–Pundmedian? Comedit? Comeditator? Commendian? Mocking Head?
I vote for Mocking Head, though Comeditator has its virtues.
Harold
April 19, 2008 at 11:36 am
50Just remember, Bill Donohue represents the views and beliefs of Catholics in the same way that Osama bin Laden represents the views and beliefs of Muslims.
Chris Harlan
April 19, 2008 at 12:48 pm
51What the heck is happening with Wait Wait? It is three hours late on its Internet posting. Never seen that before. I’m jones-ing.
Chris Harlan
April 19, 2008 at 1:50 pm
52Still no WWDTM! Well, maybe the Peabody did go to their heads, or maybe they’ve made comments so cutting that the lawyers are involved, or maybe 4/20 came a little early this year for someone in the posting chain. Who knows. I’ll tune in tomorrow.
Samuel
April 19, 2008 at 2:37 pm
53I have to tell you that the Maryland crab cakes were unbelievable! And with my recent merit pay raise, we decided to splurge on a fine Italian Pinot Grigio. We were both a little looped after the meal, so we went for a walk on the beach. It was getting dark and, as I said, we’d had a few drinks, but I swear to God, I saw Scooter Libby, on the beach, out along the high tide line sweeping for dimes with a metal detector. How far the mighty have fallen. I can’t wait to see how Bush spends his retirement. Rumor has it that he’s selling the ranch in Crawford, which he bought before the election to give himself a touchstone with the common voter, and he and Laura are moving to Dallas. And may a plague of locust welcome the two on their first day there.
Chris Harlan
April 19, 2008 at 2:51 pm
54Funny, my Raisin Bran told me that Bush had picked out Dubai as the site of his Presidential library. I’d assumed, on selling the ranch, that he would just be moving there.
Steve
April 19, 2008 at 5:13 pm
55Chris: You should be able to listen to Wait Wait live on any one of a number of stations via webcast.
Just check Public Radio Fan, click on the Programs by name link in the Program Finder on the sidebar and find a station carrying WWDTM. . . or just click here to go directly to the station list.
Dave von Ebers
April 19, 2008 at 6:00 pm
56Chris H. … Too bad I had cold pizza and black coffee for breakfast this morning (widely known as The Breakfast of Champions). I’ll try the muttering thing with my raisin bran tomorrow morning.
Yeah, Danny Federici was a peach, as are all the E-Streeters. I saw them the first time on tour for The River in, I wanna say, 1981 or 82; then in 1984, and in 2000. Each show was great, I have to say. That sound is just unbelievable. Thanks for the kind words.
Anyway, as for all this Pope stuff … just remember that while this “Benedict” dude (f/k/a the Vatican’s Dick Cheney) was in the Hitler Youth (involuntarily, according to Donohue, which may be true), his predecessor was doing what he could to hide Jewish friends from the Nazis in Poland. And while then-Bishop Ratzenberger was boning up (you’ll pardon the expression) on, ahem, doctrine, his predecessor was staring down the Communist Party in Warsaw. Now, believe me, I’m well aware of JPII’s flaws; still, he was a genuine religious leader, whereas this dude, who I presume is just warming the seat for the next guy, is a dogmatic, hard-nosed, unpleasant cuss.
And I say that with, ahem, all due respect, know what I’m sayin’?
And if der Papst doesn’t like it, he can kiss my royal Irish arse. Well, it’s half Irish anyway.
Pope Benny 16
April 19, 2008 at 7:29 pm
57Still squirreled away in this underground hell hole. My Opus Dei friend, Trent, brought his 8-Track tapes of Del Shannon and of The Beach Boys to help pass the time. “Don’t Worry Baby” - that was Heinrich’s favorite. It’s playing right now!
Swachkopfig Amerikaner kultur! Fast cars, girlfriends, drunken misbehavior! I’ll never understand what the attraction is to such frivolous wastes of time and energy!
Oops, I slipped into Deutsche again, didn’t I? I still do that occasionally when I get worked up. I guess the thoughts of Heinrich….. When he left he wrote me a note saying I was a dogmatic, hard-nosed, unpleasant schwein. I’m suppose he’s right. Sigh….
Trent says tomorrow we can go outside into the sunshine for about 30 minutes. Several colleagues of his will be bringing some ice cream and Ho Ho snacks from the Piggly Wiggly, whatever that is. The sedatives they have here are simply lovely. I must find out what they are called. Yawn! Guten abend.
siobhan
April 19, 2008 at 8:26 pm
58Here’s a preview of my letter-to-the-editor:
Opinion on ABC’s debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama seems to be divided into two camps (of unequal size): one group says that the debate was a travesty and the purest example of all that is wrong with politics now, focussing on trivial gotcha issues while ignoring the monumental challenges facing the US in the coming years; the other group says that it was a display of character and an insight into the candidate’s soul.
Fine. We all have our own reasons for why we vote the way we do.
However, if you are in the second group - the “character” group - you are never again allowed to criticize Obama for being “all nice talk with no specifics”. NEVER. He came prepared to talk policy, to talk specifics, to talk real issues and you wanted flag pins. You had your chance to ask real questions, and you asked about flag love.
Do I make myself clear?
SallyMutant
April 20, 2008 at 12:11 am
59siobhan, no vetting needed, send it. Now.
The Mary Mapes post on Huffpo is pertinent; she mentions lots of real issue that real debate journalists would use in a like, real debate.
The AnnFan Club
April 20, 2008 at 6:40 am
60Whoa, that woman can write!!!
You think she has red hair like Ann?
I don’t know, but she definitely is fierce like Ann. That’s interesting in a woman, don’t you think?
Wait a minute - isn’t she that Bird Lady from near Alcatraz?
Oh, yeah, I think you’re right about that, Chatsworth. It had to happen some day - your being right about something, I mean.
I sure have been missing Siobhan. Glad to see she hasn’t lost her touch. Remember that Tahoe web ad she did? I think GM decided to remove the power from the hands of the little people right after that one was posted to the website.
Yes, I remember that one - true comedic genius wrapped in steaming, demonic irony. Kind of like Harvey, yes?
Yeah, like Harvey. BTW, he’s doing a great job on the new hovering camera drone. Looks like next Saturday morning will be H-hour for the first flight. I can hardly wait!
The retro “Encounters of the Third Kind” stylings are sweet! I bet the rash of 911 UFO calls in the Pacific Northwest spikes like never before.
Yeah, but it doesn’t take much to get the rabble up there roused.
Hey, hold on - my sister lives there! Hmmm….on second thought…I guess you’re right.
David
April 20, 2008 at 6:44 pm
61Absolutely no vetting required, siobhan.
So Dick Cheney does the honors for Benedict’s auf wiedersehen - remind me again who’s president. And Benedict says, “God bless America” with the inflection of a neo-con (ok, a neo-con with a German accent - and neo-con is hyphenated to separate it into new and con job), when I thought he was the spiritual leader of the world’s Catholics - and opposed to the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, for which occupation the construction of the U.S. occupation bases is moving ahead “muscularly.” Why in hell did he come here? At whose behest, and why? I think Dave von Ebers captured the essence of this loser. And a loser he is compared to recent popes, some flawed but with powerful redeeming qualities, and one simply a collection of powerful redeeming qualities.
Mary Mapes, you might remember, was the producer for the CBS story aired by Dan Rather regarding Bush’s Champagne Air National Guard service, a privileged obligation he still couldn’t bring himself to meet. She is one very, very bright lady, as is Ms. Huffington. God love ‘em. They are showing the way.
Pope Benny 16
April 20, 2008 at 7:00 pm
62I must say, as trips to foreign countries go, this journey to America was a rather large disappointment. Trent’s friends showed up three hours late this afternoon and during a heavy rain shower. So we stood around outside the bunker under some trees and picnicked on what they brought. Yet another crushing disappointment - the convenience store down the road from here had absolutely no ice cream and was temporarily out of Ho Ho’s - the land of plenty indeed! Roger, the driver of the car, had a supply of RC colas and a box of Moon Pies from his trip 3 months ago to the Carolina. He dug them out of the trunk and handed them around. The RC colas are an acquired taste, but the Moon Pies were amazing, even though Roger had a flat on the way up here and had carelessly dropped the blown out tire on the box.
The party over, I got into the back of the van and Trent drove us back to Dulles Airport, where an Aeroflot puddle jumper was waiting and I began the 17 hour flight back to Italy. No food service and a broken toilet. I’ve had better vacations.
dee
April 21, 2008 at 8:14 am
63From USA Today:
In a Quinnipiac Poll released last week, 26% of Clinton supporters in the Keystone State said that if Obama were the Democratic nominee they would vote for McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee, in November. Meanwhile, 19% of Obama’s backers said they would support McCain if Clinton were his Democratic opponent.
As someone who intends to vote a straight Democratic ticket no matter whose name is at the top, I have to ask — What part of Supreme Court nomination do these people not understand?
siobhan
April 21, 2008 at 12:33 pm
64Dee, apparently the part about locking in a 7-2 majority for a generation or two.
Just Jay
April 21, 2008 at 5:10 pm
65Dave v E (# 51)
I thought the breakfast of champions was cold pizza and warm flat beer. Been doing it that way for years.
Jay
David
April 21, 2008 at 5:11 pm
66Now we know: 26% of Pennsylvania supporters of Clinton and 19% of Pennsylvania supporters of Obama are idiots. At least my group, the Obama supporters, has 7% fewer idiots than does the other group, which means we Obama supporters as a group have a bit more sense than the Clinton supporters. Any Democrat who would vote for McCain is genuinely clueless (as were the “Reagan” Democrats). Mostly it is a commentary on how politically ignorant, dazed and confused, and petulant approximately one in five or four Pennsylvania Democrats is It ain’t the campaign, it’s the voters.
I will miss the America I used to think I knew.
Sancha
April 21, 2008 at 5:15 pm
67Was it the Hitler Youth thing? Was it the anti-contraception, anti-homosexual, anti-women thing? No, I knew there was some real reason I didn´t trust Benedict. (I guess without his cats he´s just another -holic.)
Dale
April 21, 2008 at 6:47 pm
68From the article linked by Sancha:
“When I’d see that the shades were up next door, I knew he [Joseph Ratzinger] was home,” Chico writes. “Then I’d race over and rub up against his legs. What wonderful times we’ve spent together!”
So, Chico is a *cat*? That was the best the Vatican spin machine could come with? (How did Larry Craig’s staff miss that one?)
Rub on, Benny.
Chris Harlan
April 21, 2008 at 10:48 pm
69Wow, Chico and the Man-Vatican style, except with some “hep” talk and a little bit of Will and Grace thrown in. It will sell, Dale. We can do this deal.
Chris Harlan
April 21, 2008 at 10:59 pm
70Obama fans, I’m so sorry. Today, I shifted 2% in his direction, so my brain is now Obama-owned 51%, with only 49% left for Clinton. Please don’t tell my daughter. The problem is, historically, my vote shifting seems to have the oracular precision of a dead canary. With a very few exceptions the candidate I switch to is pretty much doomed. And, generally, quickly. I wouldn’t expect concession speeches tomorrow night, but still…
Aunt Sam
April 22, 2008 at 4:23 am
71Very funny treatment of the DNC by one of the ‘West Wing’ writers: http://nymag.com/news/politics/45786/
gotta vote for the Democratic nominee, gotta vote for the Democratic nominee,…
Jim (OJNTNJ)
April 22, 2008 at 6:04 am
72Happy Earth Day all. Walk, bike, or take mass transit if you can. Plant a tree, buy biodegradable, fill in a hole.
A good friend of mine was born the day after Earth Day so he refers to his age as one day younger than dirt.
Dave von Ebers
April 22, 2008 at 7:23 am
73Did I really call the pope “Ratzenberger”? Oh, well, my bad. But I stand by the rest of what I said …
cooper
April 22, 2008 at 7:44 am
74Jim, Earth Day is not such a good yardstick to measure age. That would make me about 2 decades older than dirt. Do I have a witness Boomer?
David
April 22, 2008 at 5:03 pm
75You bunch of wet-behind-the-ears-ers. Obama’s mother and I were born in the same year. Get this week’s TIME if you don’t already have it.
Don’t fret, Chris. It has to do with the fact that the Enlightenment sort of didn’t make it past the founders. But Obama could bring about its reappearance in Washington. He represents an urge in American society, especially among younger Americans, that is larger than just him. Hard to believe Paul Krugman misinterpreted its nature and significance so badly, and that Bill Clinton has apparently forgotten. Hillary will return to her Enlightenment phase if she becomes president. She and Bill tried when they were in the White House. Remember when they hosted Stephen Hawking?
John McCain might or might not know what the Enlightenment was all about. His family was more into celebrating war and the exploits of his grandfather in the Phillipines. Wonder if McCain ever read any of the poetry or literature from the period relative to that colonial enterprise.
And back at ‘cha, Acronym Jim. Happy Earth Day has a really nice ring to it.
Old Farts for Obama
Zee Man
April 22, 2008 at 5:26 pm
76An interesting sounding magazine article in Rolling Stone this time: “Jesus Made Me Puke” by Matt Taibbi. I’m tired of the shouting heads on MSNBC trying to explain the nuances of the PA primary. I’m particularly tired of Pat Buchanon’s falsetto spinning everything political as an advantage for conservatives. Hell, I’m just tire. Goodnight.
Zee Man
April 22, 2008 at 5:39 pm
77…Hell, I’m just tired. See? I’m tired.
gillian
April 23, 2008 at 3:44 am
78So I didn’t win the Boston Marathon this year. OK, so I didn’t register and I didn’t run. It was still a great time to be in Boston! But now that we’re back, there’s work to do.
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/04/21/tomo/
Whew! I’m glad that’s finished. Now what will I do for the rest of the day?
hedera
April 24, 2008 at 1:53 pm
79Aunt Sam, if we end up with the ticket in that story, I will always wonder…