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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread</title>
	<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/</link>
	<description>America's favorite blog</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24724</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24724</guid>
					<description>Gotta agree with you, hedera.  We as Americans have experienced a diminishing since the 2001 inaugural greater than anything I can remember, and my youthful adulthood spanned the Viet Nam War.  
Actually, the last time I can remember the opposite was the feeling associated with the call to what America could be that we heard when JFK was president and the actualities of the end of apartheid in the South(signigicant actual credit goes to LBJ and a lot of unsung Southerners), bloody as that was.  What in hell have we been about since those days of at least imagining a better world based on knowledge, real humanity, and science/reason-driven policies?  And no, I do not view that period through rose-colored glasses, because I was too involved in the battles against the ugly realities to pretend it was all goodness and joy.  But how and why in hell we as a nation committed ourselves to such a downward spiral baffles me.  

One tragic flaw that has always bothered me is the glorification of war and our war machine.  We do not seem to be able to remember what war really is, and this administration has made sure we as a society don't really look at the reality.  Only thing they can't cover up is that we lost in Iraq.  Had we "won," Bush would be enjoying hero status.  We are entirely too much in love with military prowess and "winning" wars, just as we are entirely too much in love with guns - and I do support responsible, sane gun ownership and use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta agree with you, hedera.  We as Americans have experienced a diminishing since the 2001 inaugural greater than anything I can remember, and my youthful adulthood spanned the Viet Nam War.<br />
Actually, the last time I can remember the opposite was the feeling associated with the call to what America could be that we heard when JFK was president and the actualities of the end of apartheid in the South(signigicant actual credit goes to LBJ and a lot of unsung Southerners), bloody as that was.  What in hell have we been about since those days of at least imagining a better world based on knowledge, real humanity, and science/reason-driven policies?  And no, I do not view that period through rose-colored glasses, because I was too involved in the battles against the ugly realities to pretend it was all goodness and joy.  But how and why in hell we as a nation committed ourselves to such a downward spiral baffles me.  </p>
<p>One tragic flaw that has always bothered me is the glorification of war and our war machine.  We do not seem to be able to remember what war really is, and this administration has made sure we as a society don&#8217;t really look at the reality.  Only thing they can&#8217;t cover up is that we lost in Iraq.  Had we &#8220;won,&#8221; Bush would be enjoying hero status.  We are entirely too much in love with military prowess and &#8220;winning&#8221; wars, just as we are entirely too much in love with guns - and I do support responsible, sane gun ownership and use.
</p>
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		<title>by: hedera</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24701</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24701</guid>
					<description>Harold, as a matter of fact, there are systems that check to see if you are off the rails before allowing you to buy a gun.  In fact, Virginia has such a system.  What Virginia does not have is universal adherence to the idea that the mental health weenies should pass on the diagnosis of "a danger to himself and others" to the guys that maintain the background check database...  as they did not, in the case of the late lamented Cho.

And yes, I think he should be lamented; it is lamentable that he got to this state and nobody noticed, nobody intervened.  "Any man's death diminshes me"; and what with the way things go these days, I feel pretty small sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold, as a matter of fact, there are systems that check to see if you are off the rails before allowing you to buy a gun.  In fact, Virginia has such a system.  What Virginia does not have is universal adherence to the idea that the mental health weenies should pass on the diagnosis of &#8220;a danger to himself and others&#8221; to the guys that maintain the background check database&#8230;  as they did not, in the case of the late lamented Cho.</p>
<p>And yes, I think he should be lamented; it is lamentable that he got to this state and nobody noticed, nobody intervened.  &#8220;Any man&#8217;s death diminshes me&#8221;; and what with the way things go these days, I feel pretty small sometimes.
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		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24692</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24692</guid>
					<description>http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-myword21b07apr21,0,213976.story</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-myword21b07apr21,0,213976.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-myword21b07apr21,0,213 976.story</a>
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		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24691</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24691</guid>
					<description>I'm going to try to get a link posted, but meanwhile go to the Orlando Sentinel for Saturday, April 21 and read the "My Word" commentary on the editorial pages (page A19) by Jerome Donnelly, a retired UCF English professor entitled "Ishmael with an Automatic."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to try to get a link posted, but meanwhile go to the Orlando Sentinel for Saturday, April 21 and read the &#8220;My Word&#8221; commentary on the editorial pages (page A19) by Jerome Donnelly, a retired UCF English professor entitled &#8220;Ishmael with an Automatic.&#8221;
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		<title>by: Harold</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24628</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24628</guid>
					<description>I found that I was pretty numb about this whole thing until the identity of the gunman was revealed.  Then I just started to feel anger, outrage, and a host of other emotions.

I remember back in 1989 when I had begun my brief foray into graduate school there was an incident at a university in Canada where a guy rounded up and murdered a bunch of female engineering students.  Seven of them, I think.  My reaction was much more immediate and visceral then than it is now. Maybe I've become numb to mass deaths.  Or maybe 32 in one place, one at a time, is too much death for me to wrap my head around.

I immediately recalled the organized rallies of Virginia gun-shop owners just a few weeks ago protesting New York's anti-gun-sales efforts (specifically, New York felons are getting their hands on guns bought in states like Virginia that have lax background checks and no waiting period).  But the details of this shooter suggest that that discussion may not be relevant in this case.  This kid was disturbed, probably insane - but is there a system anywhere that checks to see if you're a sociopath before you can buy a gun?

Meanwhile, my friends from other countries are increasingly convinced that Americans are all insane gun-toting maniacs, and if they ever were to visit here they would be killed in a crossfire.  Stuff like this doesn't help to convine them otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found that I was pretty numb about this whole thing until the identity of the gunman was revealed.  Then I just started to feel anger, outrage, and a host of other emotions.</p>
<p>I remember back in 1989 when I had begun my brief foray into graduate school there was an incident at a university in Canada where a guy rounded up and murdered a bunch of female engineering students.  Seven of them, I think.  My reaction was much more immediate and visceral then than it is now. Maybe I&#8217;ve become numb to mass deaths.  Or maybe 32 in one place, one at a time, is too much death for me to wrap my head around.</p>
<p>I immediately recalled the organized rallies of Virginia gun-shop owners just a few weeks ago protesting New York&#8217;s anti-gun-sales efforts (specifically, New York felons are getting their hands on guns bought in states like Virginia that have lax background checks and no waiting period).  But the details of this shooter suggest that that discussion may not be relevant in this case.  This kid was disturbed, probably insane - but is there a system anywhere that checks to see if you&#8217;re a sociopath before you can buy a gun?</p>
<p>Meanwhile, my friends from other countries are increasingly convinced that Americans are all insane gun-toting maniacs, and if they ever were to visit here they would be killed in a crossfire.  Stuff like this doesn&#8217;t help to convine them otherwise.
</p>
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		<title>by: gillian</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24625</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24625</guid>
					<description>Not the best time for &lt;a href="http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=22246" title="comix" rel="nofollow"&gt;comix&lt;/a&gt;, but...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not the best time for <a href="http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=22246" title="comix" rel="nofollow">comix</a>, but&#8230;
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		<title>by: SpottedDog</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24623</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24623</guid>
					<description>Implied ignorance? Implied lack of perception? 

I think I'm overreacting. I must be upset. Time for a glass and a good book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Implied ignorance? Implied lack of perception? </p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m overreacting. I must be upset. Time for a glass and a good book.
</p>
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		<title>by: SpottedDog</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24622</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24622</guid>
					<description>Though death is death, the setting can certainly have a profound effect on the reaction to and perception of death. A massacre in a  classroom is a much more shocking image to me than that of soldiers being killed in a war zone. I do not accept the implication that I should react to each in the same way.

To put it simply there is no expectation of death in the student setting  whereas soldiers are intimately involved with death.

The death of a soldier may imply glory, vengeance, duty, and sacrifice and may be perceived as a fitting and honorable end. The death of a student implies a lost future and would most often seem odd if described in the same way as the death of a soldier.

Stripped of their roles each is in fact a person which may be what Cooper and others are getting at. I don't think that reacting to the setting, to the role each person has chosen, and to the presence of death in the particular setting and upon the particular role is ignorant or in any way lacking in perception as seems to be implied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though death is death, the setting can certainly have a profound effect on the reaction to and perception of death. A massacre in a  classroom is a much more shocking image to me than that of soldiers being killed in a war zone. I do not accept the implication that I should react to each in the same way.</p>
<p>To put it simply there is no expectation of death in the student setting  whereas soldiers are intimately involved with death.</p>
<p>The death of a soldier may imply glory, vengeance, duty, and sacrifice and may be perceived as a fitting and honorable end. The death of a student implies a lost future and would most often seem odd if described in the same way as the death of a soldier.</p>
<p>Stripped of their roles each is in fact a person which may be what Cooper and others are getting at. I don&#8217;t think that reacting to the setting, to the role each person has chosen, and to the presence of death in the particular setting and upon the particular role is ignorant or in any way lacking in perception as seems to be implied.
</p>
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		<title>by: waterfowler</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24621</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24621</guid>
					<description>...a time to mourn...Ecc.3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;a time to mourn&#8230;Ecc.3
</p>
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		<title>by: Dale</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24619</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2007/04/16/open-thread/#comment-24619</guid>
					<description>Cooper--and what about all the Iraqi civilians--also many young people--who are killed in suicide attacks every day? 

I in no way mean to minimize the horror of the VA shooting, or to suggest that it isn´t worthy of media coverage. I guess it is human nature to feel things more the closer they are to home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cooper&#8211;and what about all the Iraqi civilians&#8211;also many young people&#8211;who are killed in suicide attacks every day? </p>
<p>I in no way mean to minimize the horror of the VA shooting, or to suggest that it isn´t worthy of media coverage. I guess it is human nature to feel things more the closer they are to home.
</p>
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