As a lot of you know, I rarely get involved in the cacophonous fray known as “the blogosphere,” that magical land where journalism meets ridiculism and the two become hopelessly snarled. Over the years, I’ve steadfastly maintained that I simply do not post about blogs or bloggers, and I’ve held firm to that promise. With only a couple of exceptions. Or maybe a couple dozen exceptions. Pretty firm, anyway - it’s a solemn pledge I’ve kept only in the few (dozen) instances when I haven’t.
Already you can see why I don’t fit in with the blogging community - I’m too reliable.
But I’ve never offered a full explanation as to why I avoid getting involved in the thing that I am, by definition, involved in. In case you’re a typical blog reader and don’t intend to click to read the details “below the fold,” let me see if I can encapsulate my premise in an easily digestible nugget:
Blogs suck. You should never, ever trust anything you read on a blog. Not even this.
I told you I wanted only a splash of cranberry, idiot! Take it back! And don’t give me that look - I can send you right back to Jakarta and you can spend the rest of your life sewing swooshes onto sneakers. How would you like THAT, smartass? What did you - what? Readers? HERE? Oh…
I beg your pardon - I didn’t expect anyone to be reading this far. I was just having a quick tete-a-tete with my houseboy, Nico. My apologies…
Anyway, as long as you’re here, I’ll elaborate.
You might have noticed my publication this week of the diary of journalist/blogger Michelle Malkin as she prepares for her courageous journey to Iraq. It was a rare honor, and I’ll continue to publish her thoughts… if she goes to Iraq. She might not, it seems. Jamil Hussein has been found.
I’m not going to burden you with the whole story. No blogger ever does. So I’ll just tell you the parts that help make my point and leave out the stuff that complicates the issue and gives you the chance to make up your own mind.
A couple of months ago the conservative side of the blogosphere began yelling about the bias of the Associated Press, their reliance on “stringers” and their repeated use of questionable sources. Why were the sources questionable? Because they seemed to paint a picture of a brutal and chaotic Iraq. The real story, of a slightly-less brutal and chaotic Iraq, was being obscured by these yellow journalist with their fake sources.
“Fake?” Why, yes. Some time after Thanksgiving, someone noticed that the AP had used the same source, a police officer named “Jamil Hussein,” 60 times over the past couple of years. He seemed to be the go-to guy for reports about violence and chaos and chaotic violence.
Skipping ahead a bit, the blogosphere stepped in to investigate this so-called officer, and found out that he didn’t exist! Well, at least the Iraqi Interior Ministry had no record of him and the US military reported what the Ministry said and none of Michelle Malkin or her friends’ sources could find him and the AP wasn’t talking!! Jamilgate! That, in fact, is what they began to call it. Less-temperate bloggers came right out and called the AP liars and propagandists, more-temperate bloggers screamed their bloody heads off, and Eason Jordan offered to send Michelle Malkin to Iraq to investigate. If you question the wisdom of the former head of a news channel sending a columnist and well-known ideologue into a war zone to investigate the work of a journalist… well, then welcome to the internet. We can send mail through these devices too, believe it or not.
By late December, a woman named Nancy French, blogging for the National Review Online, felt comfortable enough about the veracity of the Jamilgate story to write:
November: After months of therapy trying to “find himself,” Iraqi Jamil Hussein realizes he doesn’t exist after all — in spite of his frequent mentions in the Associated Press. A blogger uncovers the revelation that the AP used false sources and fabricated stories of war atrocities. James Frey doesn’t see what the big deal is, since a “higher truth” is being told.
Funny! We bloggers know how to bring da zing, don’t we? It seemed like the party would never stop, right up until the moment, two days ago, when the party stopped.
At which point people began pretending that the party hadn’t, in fact, stopped…
[NOTE - I’m going to take a walk, and possibly a shower, and return to this later. Probably. We bloggers, after all, have no obligation to finish what we start. Until later! (Maybe!)]
[Okay, I’m back. A good walk, though without any jogging thanks to shin splints. Still, 4 miles have been logged. Actual journalists have editors, just about any of whom would delete this entire paragraph. Nyaah, nyahh!]
Where was I? Oh yeah - so when the Jamil Hussein “scandal” turned out to not be a scandal, you’d expect the accusers to print retractions, apologies, and mea culpas, allowing that group dynamics and wishful thinking led to an unfortunate riot of mistaken assumptions, wouldn’t you? Mostly, you’d expect everyone to turn now to the very troubling question of why the Iraqi Interior Ministry AND the US military denied the man’s existence…
Again, welcome. This “worldwide web” is an amazing thing. Did you know you can buy books here too?
No, faced with the staggering revelation that the AP’s source, Baghdad police officer Jamil Hussein was - it turns out - a police officer in Baghdad who operated under the name “Jamil Hussein,” the right side of the blogosphere responded in a number of unique ways. They are claiming that there are still a lot of important questions to be answered, that they saw verifying Hussein’s existence as a first step all along, that getting the AP to get the Iraqis to reveal that Hussein did exist was a victory for bloggers everywhere, and that none of this proves that anything Jamil Hussein told the AP was true.
Most entertainingly, the bloggers on the right are now mocking the bloggers on the left for only coming to this party now that the right’s been proven wrong:
The Moonbats (Finally) Notice Jamil Hussein
Better late than never, I suppose.
Despite a virtual moonbat blackout of the Jamil Hussein story for most of its life so far, they’re all a-twitter now. Turns out the moonbat bloggers knew about the story all along–they just didn’t want to publicize it. Now that they see a chance to ding the media skeptics on our side, they’re all over the story…
The logic here is that by refusing to add to the gigantic echo-chamber of noise surrounding the non-story about an AP source who it turns out did not not exist, the left has a lot of nerve mentioning the non-story now that it’s been shown to not have been a story in the first place. What’s the point of manufacturing a gigantic and false distraction if half of the blogosphere refuses to be distracted by it? How dare the left pretend that this non-story didn’t exist?
[For you new “surfers” on the “internets,” you should know that “moonbat” is a term used by conservatives to refer to liberals. “Wingnut” is the liberal term for conservatives. These affectionate nicknames promote communication and thoughtful dialog between the two sides and help both camps understand and respect each others’ views.]
In fairness, I did find one conservative blogger, Stephen Spruiell (also at the NRO) who seems to understand what’s happened:
The Iraqi Interior Ministry appears to have committed a colossal error here, and if the AP’s reporting is correct, then the U.S. military and a number of conservative bloggers, myself included, gave the MOI too much credit and the AP too little in the criticism that followed…
For their part, conservative bloggers and media critics need to tone down the rhetoric about collusion with the enemy. I’m not exempting myself from this criticism.
However, stating the above makes me a bad blogger. Let me try again:
Stephen Spruiell still doesn’t get it. Leading the charge in wing-nuttery, he flies in the face of facts, still nattering on about the AP’s “collusion with the enemy” and (I quote!) “exempting myself from criticism.”
There. That’s better.
Is the left side of the blogosphere better? As a liberal, I can assure you that it is much, much better, much more responsible, and demonstrates a new breed of ethical citizen journalism that is promoting positive changes in the way we receive and process information.
Heh.
No, even though there are a few blogs that I like (I’ve linked to them on these pages), when all is said and done… blogs suck. For all the good that they’ve done (and any blogger will happily lecture you about the triumphs of the blogosphere), there’s simply too much bullshit out there. And the bullshit isn’t even close to being “independent” bullshit anymore. Bloggers have become the archetypal Useful Idiots.
Consider the story of Jamil Hussein. Fox News employee (and independent blogger) Michelle Malkin received word from her “sources” as well as the Iraq Interior ministry that the AP’s source, Jamil Hussein, might not exist. For six weeks - six bloody, tragedy-filled weeks - scores of “independent” American political bloggers devoted themselves to trumpeting, puffing, and strutting around this new banner of Media Deception, clogging the virtual airwaves with self-righteous screeds about accountability and propaganda…
Bloggers: Consider the source of the story that Jamil Hussein didn’t exist. And then consider that the subsequent explosion in the blogosphere might be exactly what they wanted. And that’s something for both sides of the political spectrum to consider. We are, in general, not trained journalists. We are rabidly opinionated. And that makes us ideal targets for anyone trying to promote a lie or provide a smokescreen.
I don’t exempt myself from this. I’m not sure whose lie I’m promoting right now, but it’s definitely someone’s. I’m pretty sure that these are not, in fact, my real opinions, though I believe them fervently. So hear me now, and hear me well - you can’t trust blogs. Especially not this one.
Nico! Those spritzers aren’t gonna make themselves…





71 comments
Ann
January 6, 2007 at 2:14 pm
1Curse you, Adam. I won’t know what to think until you get back and finish the story.
David
January 6, 2007 at 4:42 pm
2Back in the day (the summer I worked on a dairy farm), we would have put the stuff in a spreader and headed for the pastures, where it would at least have had the possibility of doing something constructive. The blogosphere’s utterly unedited nature is both its blessing and its curse, I think. Unfortunate that the Useful Idiot phenomenon is such a powerful factor, and that ideologues can be so goddamned gullible. While I might be instructed not to believe anything, including Adam’s blogentating, Adam is cursed with a level of intellectual honesty and capacity for informed insight that I will have to continue to respect what he has to offer. Sorry, Adam, but your disclaimer ain’t gonna work.
hedera
January 6, 2007 at 5:30 pm
3I hesitate, at this point, even to admit that I blog
I only started it so I’d have a place to rant when things get too weird; but every disclaimer I make, I can also hear Michelle Malkin saying… this is really embarrassing. At this point the only thing I have over her is that I haven’t made a fool of myself by claiming I was going to Iraq to check out the situation personally. I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid. Also, I never claimed to have the Whole Truth…
Ann
January 6, 2007 at 9:39 pm
4While waiting for Adam to return, I thought I’d share this gem of an e-mail that was just forwarded to me—I’m afraid it originates from a friend of my Dad’s, but I’m hoping not:
Words can’t express how disgusting this comparison is. What kind of self-satisfied, ignorant ass would compare the blizzard in Denver to the floods in New Orleans? I need a drink. And a shower.
SeattleTammy
January 6, 2007 at 10:18 pm
5Ann, I’m so glad we have showers and lights and HEAT.
Here’s the latest from Our Lady of the Concentration Camps Maybe she doesn’t have to go after all!
and just so ya don’t miss it, I filed this entry under another thread yesterday!
another Matt
January 7, 2007 at 5:51 am
6Re: Hurricane Katrina vs Denver multi-snows
You can’t deny the similarities. They were both weather phenomena that affected major cities.
Of course, if you live in a major northern city, you know that all you have to do is wait out a snowstorm. The chance of your home being destroyed is virtually nil (unless Lars imbibes too much “anti-freeze” and runs the big snowplow thru your living room). You don’t have to evacuate. Your possessions are safe. And all the excess water eventually melts and goes away, often without the help of the Army Corps of Engineers. Congratulations to the Denver resident quoted above for figuring all of this out on his own.
BTW, I’ve decided that it’s silly for me to have a rear-wheel drive compact here in Chicago-land. The next car has to be FWD or AWD.
Mojo
January 7, 2007 at 8:38 am
7At least this kind of behavior is limited to the blogosphere. If we ever had a situation where our leaders allowed group think, hype and wishful thinking to get us into a conflict (maybe even to the point of actually going to Iraq) and then, when their claims were proven wrong, tried to claim that the conflict was really about something else all along… Well, just be glad that could never happen.
ice weasel
January 7, 2007 at 11:37 am
8Adam, if your point was, “You can’t trust anyone, due dilligence is always a good idea” then I’d agree with wholeheartedly. Instead, you post, in your standard comic tone, claims that “blogs can’t be trusted”.
I mean, no shit?
Come on.
Do you have examples that discredit the left side as strongly as the right? If so, I’d love to see them. It might even be an eye opening experience however, my guess is, you don’t have those examples. Instead you offer up a platitude “don’t trust blogs” then present an example of how the wingnuts have, once again, shit all over themselves.
I don’t know Adam. I’ll grant you the possibility that you are so much smarter and more subtle than I am that I just missed the intellectual message or the humour in the post. It’s possible but for now, I don’t see it. If you or anyone else wants to be gracious enough to educate me here, I’ll listen.
So I thinking that the next time you decide to drop a load on everyone, you might want to build a case that actually indicts everyone.
Or just be funny.
For a guy with gigs on Faux and NicePoliteRepublicans, to be slamming bloggers, many of whom (or is it “who”, fuck, I was an art major, not lit) are producing solid reporting work and responsible opinion backed up with fact, I think you do them a disservice. You certainly aren’t coming from any higher moral ground yourself.
So Adam, what was your point again? Oh, “So hear me now, and hear me well - you can’t trust blogs. Especially not this one.”
Indeed.
Adam Felber
January 7, 2007 at 1:27 pm
9Ice weasel -
I kind of thought I’d strike a nerve here, but I wrote it anyway. That said, I hoped that such a flippantly-written piece would be taken in the same spirit.
And yes, my general point was “due diligence is always a good idea.” In fact, I believe it’s absolutely necessary and too-often ignored. And you could’ve stopped there.
But you went on. Here’s my non-comic take, then:
The reason I include liberal bloggers in there (despite my somewhat snide caveat about them being wholly honest and good - and they are, in general WAY better), is that I think - as I’ve said many times - that the good works of journalism done by liberal bloggers are like unto a drop in the bucket compared to work being done daily by committed journalists who devote their lives and put their bodies at risk to get stories.
Now just about any liberal blogger I mention this to will nod their heads and say that they are only trying to supplement the work done by journalists and correct the bad ones. That is the lip service that is paid, until one reads the blogs. Where stories are cited, generally, in two ways:
1) Look at this fact I found in the mainstream news - proves my point.
2) Look at this slanted lie I found in the mainstream news - proves that the media sucks.
Do you see an imbalance there? I do. #2 passes judgment on an institution. #1 does not provide a counterbalance. You will see this formula played out literally hundreds of times a day on hundreds of blogs all across the land. It is like a toxic cloud. And it plays right into the hands of those who’d like to see the press go away.
In fact, it plays right in to the hands of the old school conservative media-bashers. So that now… both sides of the engaged electorate have their own news sources.
To me, that is one of the several reasons why the country didn’t learn that Iraq was an unmitigated disaster until 2 and a half years after every reporter and military man knew it.
I point to your use of the casual insult “NicePoliteRepublicans” to refer to an institution that conservatives consider a shameless liberal bastion. I KNOW those people, iceweasel. I know how hard they work, I know how committed they are to fairness and good journalism and presenting truth in the minefield of liars and hidden agendas that make up any political entity. And you call them NicePoliteRepublicans because you feel like they are too respectful of the Liars On The Right, I suppose.
They are not a tool of scurrilous liberals. Nor are they “NicePoliteRepublicans.” They are the mighty, necessary, flawed, capable fourth estate, and - listen - there’s a giant difference between vigilant fact-checking and casual, reflexive abuse. One is productive, the other is the incredibly destructive.
And there’s no Game Plan here, is there? At least not for liberals. When nobody trusts the press anymore, the autocrats on the right WIN. When I mention this to liberals, they usually mutter something about wanting to improve the news media, not kill it. [Except for the occasional fanatic who somehow believes that bloggers themselves can somehow carry the load of actually reporting on actual events] But there is no plan, the horrifying discrediting continues, and the public’s faith in the news media has now dropped to terrifyingly low levels. So low, as I said, that an obvious fuck-up like George W. Bush could win the election in 2004.
Liberals tell me that the relentless, even habitual hammering of the mainstream media from both sides has no effect on public perception. I have thought about this a lot, and I reject it. It matters. A lot.
Looking at your blog (as I do from time to time) I can see that your mind is made up - the page right now features a long, angry (and well-written) open letter to “the media” about how the media - none of it - serves the people any more. That is your opinion.
A few entries down, you link to a story from the AP to help make a point about President Bush.
To me, one person in that instance is being served by the media. Being served, in fact, by a fine reporter named Deb Reichmann, who wrote that report for the A.P. If she ever received thanks for this work, it did not come from you.
—–
By the way, the third Google hit I get for “Deb Reichmann” is a conservative blog excoriating her for “sidestepping questions about her antiwar bias.”
—–
As for me “certainly not coming from any higher moral ground yourself…” What the fuck? A little character assassination and floating innuendo based on my known association with Fox and NPR? Because you disagree with what you think I’m saying? That’s unfair.
If taking money from either of those organizations for a job -for ANY job at all, apparently - has caused me to forfeit the “moral high ground” in your eyes… I suppose I’ll have to live with that.
Forgive me if I sound angry, iceweasel. But those are my opinions, love ‘em or hate ‘em.
Lauren
January 7, 2007 at 3:09 pm
10Adam, I’m afraid I’m gonna’ have to keep reading you.
I know, I know, you said not to, and I am compelled to believe and follow the Mighty Bloggy Dictate™ unquestioningly, so I should stop, but–I have a loophole!–I am also cultured to react to blogged cries for action by fuming and then sitting back helplessly/uselessly to keep doing what I was doing before an M.B.D.™ came down. It’s, uh, kinda’ crucial to my identity as an internet-addicted blogger, you know? And I gotta’ keep it real.
So, I can promise to try to maintain a feeling of conflicted guilt about it, for a while, but that’ll probably fade.
I need my fix, after all.
Anyway. In all seriousness, thanks for writing, man. I love it here.
piglet
January 7, 2007 at 3:44 pm
11Is this one of those “spirited internet debates” I’ve been hearing about?
Dale
January 7, 2007 at 4:09 pm
12As Groucho Marx almost said, I’d never trust any blogger who would have his readers trust him.
ice weasel
January 7, 2007 at 5:06 pm
13Adam, since you were gracious enough to respond as you did I’ll try to reciprocate.
Adam, here’s the axe I have to grind and perhaps it’s an axe I should have been more gentle with. Perhaps. However, I still believe and completely stand behind what I wrote.
Just like most every other human in this country, every day I hear and and read people in the media. Adam, you are one of those people. Hey, you don’t get Paris Hilton’s press but you have a show on television and you regularly appear on radio. An off-hand remark from you has the potential a large number people. Me? On a good day, maybe I could shout loud enough to briefly attract the attention of a group of people an order of magnitude smaller than you. So Adam, if it seems I’m holding you or anyone else I’ve mentioned to a high standard then you’re right. I am. You have a much larger megaphone than I will ever possess so yes, I hope you (and anyone else like you) will use responsibly.
Adam wrote, “that the good works of journalism done by liberal bloggers are like unto a drop in the bucket compared to work being done daily by committed journalists who devote their lives and put their bodies at risk to get stories.”
I respond…
I don’t think I argued that this was not the case. However, I think you trivialize the importance the blogs are gaining. As a balance against a media mostly not seving the public at all (unless you count collecting ad revenue as serving the public I suppose) I think blogs are rising to a more and more important role. I think a growing number of Americans are and will continue to use the blogs as another opinion, something to weigh against what they hear on the radio and see in print and on television.
I’ll also add this. I think you’re blowing a bit too much hot air under the skirt of the journalistic community. Yes, you are right that a very small precentage of reporters are doing vital and sometimes dangerous work. But I think most people would also agree that most journalists don’t. In fact, many, perhaps the vast majority of high profile journalists do much more than read what is put in front of them or recopy what they read in a press release.
Real investigative reporting is the exception, not the rule. Always has been.
So I think it’s unfair for you to color the blogs as a “drop in the bucket”. While the good, influential blogs may be small numerically, they have had a tremendous affect and that affect will continue to grow even as the power things such as newspapers continues to decline.
And I’m not saying that blogs are killing newspapers. Hardly. Newspapers (and the companies that own them…errr…bleed them dry) are doing a fine job of killing themselves.
Adam wrote, “Now just about any liberal blogger I mention this to will nod their heads and say that they are only trying to supplement the work done by journalists and correct the bad ones. That is the lip service that is paid, until one reads the blogs. Where stories are cited, generally, in two ways:
1) Look at this fact I found in the mainstream news - proves my point.
2) Look at this slanted lie I found in the mainstream news - proves that the media sucks.”
I respond…
I think you failed to add number three, the function I see many lefty blogs fulfilling and doing so in a near vacuum.
3) Look at this news item and here is some insight you might appreciate or here is my experience in that realm or here is another view of that which may add some depth to it.
However you want to characterize my number 3, I surprised you left that out. I think you’re missing the importance of the blogsphere. There is good out there. It’s not even hard to find. And to dismiss that good is a great disservice to those people who put their time and passions on the net.
Adam wrote, “It is like a toxic cloud. And it plays right into the hands of those who’d like to see the press go away.”
I respond…
Adam, we may just disagree on this but I would contend that like that “drop in the bucket” characterization of blogs, the toxins produced by them are miniscule in influence compared to the industrial strength bile belched out of the major media organs every minute of every day.
to address your point, yes, a negative attitude towards the media from the blogs does as you say. However, I would counter that with the point I think you did not raise which is, quite importantly, is it deserved? Is a media that is content in it’s mission to merely copy down what a goverment issues, is a media that is part and parcel with one political party to the detriment of serving the public an institution which deserves protection? And if derision is not heaped in their general direction what is it exactly which might help steer said media back on a more productive course?
Adam wrote, “In fact, it plays right in to the hands of the old school conservative media-bashers. So that now… both sides of the engaged electorate have their own news sources.”
I respond…
You’re absolutely right, it does but what other options are there? Again, I don’t claim to be a genius and have all the answers but I do think I’m smart enough to reject the bad options that are put before me.
Supporting an institution such as our current media, an institution that has a clear, and legally spelled out mandate to provide at least some content that will serve the public, and has completely and utterly failed in that mission, is repugnant to me.
As far as the “both sides of the engaged electorate have their own news sources” thing, well, I think that’s a product of two things.
One thing is the media, in general, has failed to be what those conservatives always claimed it was, a liberal mouthpiece. So those of who feel that liberals aren’t inherently evil, commie, baby-killers haven’t had many or any very good options and a few of those options have been degraded as well.
Adam wrote, “To me, that is one of the several reasons why the country didn’t learn that Iraq was an unmitigated disaster until 2 and a half years after every reporter and military man knew it.”
I respond…
And yet, where are we today? We hear the “surge” plan talked about from a large number of media mavens as though it actually does something (other than toss more American and Iraqi lives in the blender of this war).
Adam wrote, “I point to your use of the casual insult “NicePoliteRepublicans” to refer to an institution that conservatives consider a shameless liberal bastion. “
I respond…
And here’s what rankles me about that.
I don’t give a flying fuck what conservatives think of anything, much less NPR. Yes, it’s a casual insult but I will contend below, it’s deserved.
Adam wrote, “I KNOW those people, iceweasel. I know how hard they work, I know how committed they are to fairness and good journalism and presenting truth in the minefield of liars and hidden agendas that make up any political entity.”
I respond…
I know you do Adam. I know that some of them are your friends. And I say that intentionally hoping against hope that someone can begin some kind of change in the one part of the media institution that has been such a large part of my own life, even if I cannot count any friends amongst the staff.
Adam wrote, “And you call them NicePoliteRepublicans because you feel like they are too respectful of the Liars On The Right, I suppose.”
I respond…
Yes, some of them, maybe many of them are far too tolerant. Look Adam, if complicity in a crime is not reporting it then what is it when you help further a criminal agenda? And no, I’m not accusing the interns or the producers at WWDTM of anything like that. There are wonderful, delightful pockets of intelligence, humour and information still left on NPR but they, most sadly, are the exception anymore.
Adam wrote, “They are not a tool of scurrilous liberals.”
I respond…
That was never my contention.
Adam wrote, “Nor are they “NicePoliteRepublicans.” “
I respond…
Mara Liasson, Cokie Roberts, Steve Inskeep, Jonah Goldberg, David Brooks, Barbara Bradley Hagerty, all NPR anchors, editors, contributors, commentators (and there’s more). It would seem, and I’m only an outsider looking in, that NPR takes extraordinary measures to be perceived as fair and balanced. I’m not looking for fair and balanced and frankly, I’m not looking for a liberal take either. What I want is accuracy, objectivity and to hear about important issues that affect me.
NPR used to do that, in the parlance of the blogs, nowadays, not so much.
Adam wrote, “They are the mighty, necessary, flawed, capable fourth estate, and - listen - there’s a giant difference between vigilant fact-checking and casual, reflexive abuse. One is productive, the other is the incredibly destructive.”
I respond…
I suppose I’m the abusive part. Fair enough, I’m pretty abusive. However, productive in what sense is the other group? Productive in not reporting or misreporting the news? At fairly representing republican talking points of not being too hard on a president that, most of America seems to think, is damaging this country. I wonder when the last time we heard that sentiment broadcast on the airwaves, that majority sentiment.
I have to attend to some other matters. I’ll finish responding a little later this evening.
David
January 7, 2007 at 6:27 pm
14Adam,
I have to say that when it mattered most, the fourth estate was awol. On a previous thread, I did put a link to an impressive piece by Cokie Roberts and her husband, in part because it surprised me. I’ve been following NPR since its inception, which doesn’t make me some kind of expert, but it does make me an observer of NPR for my entire adult life, and what I have seen there and in the fourth estate in general has left me both disenchanted and distressed. There are some pockets of actual journalism in the service of the civil body politic, not the power centers, that are emerging, not the least of which are Democracy Now, Keith Olbermann’s program, some of the work at Newsweek, the NYT, and the WaPo. And there are some damned good grunts out there.
But missing thus far from this thread is the nature and role of the ownership of the major media. The other extremely important ingredient is the editors. I am at this point generally, though not universally, disillusioned by these folk as keepers of the fourth estate, with, as I suggested, some notable exceptions.
I do share your concern that relentless blasting of the media from both ends of the spectrum, like the relentless blasting of politicians and lawyers, does produce a certain amount of unhelpful toxicity, but I also understand ice weasel’s anger at the abject failure of the media on some of the most crucial, destruction-wreaking developments at the onset of the 21st century.
My own feeling is that the right wing noise machine bloggers will follow Bush over the cliff. It is tragic that they will take so many more lives, Iraqi and American military, with them. Left wing bloggers I judge for how intellectually honest and well informed they seem to be. Mostly, I demand reason, factual accuracy and comprehensiveness, and a capacity for insight. For these, I have to turn most often to books, websites, foreign journalism, C-Span, and FA, the brightest little light in the blogosphere.
waterfowler
January 7, 2007 at 8:36 pm
15I think I’ll sit this one out. Good to hear from you, Sea Skunk.
Go ‘Gators
ice weasel
January 7, 2007 at 10:03 pm
16Adam wrote, “And there’s no Game Plan here, is there?”
I respond…
Game plan? Mine? Sure, I have a game plan. My friends and pool our resources and start buying up radio stations building an empire that will spread liberal disinformation throughout the country and, hopefully, turning American into a haven for commie policies and lefty moral values.
But seriously, what game plan can I have? I’ve spent years writing letters, petitioning stations, the government and speaking out whenever I could hoping that some semblance of journalistic standards would prevail. I dontate, I volunteer and whenever I can, I add in how I think it might be better. You know what that’s gotten me don’t you?
Adam wrote, “At least not for liberals.”
I respond…
I think you’re ignoring the larger context Adam. What liberal game plan would like to see? Air America was, at best a flawed project and an idea that while addressing some concerns, in my opinion, is just the reflection of the right’s mistakes. And look what happened there. Corporate interests secretly plotted bankrupt them. And it worked. That’s not tin foil hat territory, that’s bloody documented history. So tell me what you think the game for liberals should be. I’m serious. If someone has the answer, I’m open to hearing it.
What I do know is that the current system doesn’t work, for me and for many like me.
Adam wrote, “When nobody trusts the press anymore, the autocrats on the right WIN. “
I respond…
Actually, I would alter that somewhat. When the system is rigged so that the autocrats always win, the autocrats win. That’s why it’s important, no, critical that a free press not be simply a tool of the same corporation and political interests. And really, even that isn’t enough. And perhaps that why I think blogging, and whatever will follow afterwards has the potential to serve us better. Maybe I’m wrong. I’m not saying I’m perfect but I am saying I know what doesn’t work.
Adam wrote, “When I mention this to liberals, they usually mutter something about wanting to improve the news media, not kill it. [Except for the occasional fanatic who somehow believes that bloggers themselves can somehow carry the load of actually reporting on actual events] “
I respond…
Two things.
First, tell me what else you see in your crystal ball because as much as I think I know about the future I have no idea where responsible journalism, journalism which serves the people of this nation is going to come from.
Hey, call me an agnostic fanatic. I don’t know where the solution is coming from but I have a very good idea where it won’t come from. I also know where a lot of reality emanates and it’s not printed in the WaPo or the NYT (those liberal bastions of conservatism) and it’s certainly not coming from the WSJ. So where?
Adam wrote, “But there is no plan, the horrifying discrediting continues, and the public’s faith in the news media has now dropped to terrifyingly low levels.”
I respond…
Is that my fault? Is it the fault of my little blog that has maybe two dozen regular readers? Is the fault of all liberal blogs?
Come on Adam, you’re not being realistic or even maintaining a sense of proportion here. Perhaps if the public’s opinion of the news media is low it’s because that media sucks.
Now, if you want explore why it sucks, fine. Let’s have that discussion. But blaming it on me and other liberal bloggers is ridiculous.
Adam wrote, “So low, as I said, that an obvious fuck-up like George W. Bush could win the election in 2004.”
I respond…
Horseshit.
bush won the first election because it was rigged that way. It was close enough to be rigged for a number of reasons, two of which might be that the person running against bush ran a fairly lackluster campaign and the second, and I think vastly more important reason is, the news media, as a whole, never really took the time to lavish half the attention on bush that it did on his opponent. Gore got fucked going in every direction throughout that campaign (just as Kerry did four years later).
There’s more than enough blame to go around but little of it, I think, has to do with a general disaffection with the media. Rather it was the media’s constant refrain about impotent, lying Democrats.
Adam wrote, “Liberals tell me that the relentless, even habitual hammering of the mainstream media from both sides has no effect on public perception. I have thought about this a lot, and I reject it. It matters. A lot.”
I respond…
I don’t think I ever put forth that opinion and like you, I think it’s crap, to a point.
However, isn’t the more important thing in this situation whose fault said opinion is? I mean, if you want to take to task the dishonest and very well funded wingnuts who have been undermining the media for two decades, fine with me. If you want to take to task liberals like me who are sick and fucking tired of hearing complete crap coming from said news media, well, then I guess I’ll take the blame as I deserve it.
But seriously Adam, I’ll ask you again, what am I left with? What are my other options? Should I keep sending checks in? Should I keep supporting the products of those companies who own policies are abhorrent to me? Should I keep quiet about companies that build empires only to refocus said media empires on reinforcing their own power at the cost of any journalistic standards? When ABC runs their 9/11 donkey show, should I celebrate the idea that somewhere within ABC there are good journalists? And should even try to weigh the difference between said (if not semi-mythical) good journalists at ABC and the worthless politicizing that fills their airwaves most of the time?
Adam wrote, “Looking at your blog (as I do from time to time)”
I respond…
I think I just crapped myself. I had no idea anyone other than a dozen or so friends and Hedera from here read the damn thing. For years Adam the forum was an entirely private one where a few dozen of us chatted back and forth (about half a million posts worth of chatting after five years).
Hey, thanks for visiting. Maybe I’ll have to start using the spell checker since people are actually reading the silly thing.
Adam wrote, “I can see that your mind is made up “
I respond…
Completely unfair. Yes, right now, I have an opinion. In fact, it’s a strong, passionate opinion because the issues affect me directly. Issues such as the quality of NPR news are ones I feel very strongly about. But I am always, and I mean this, always open to reconsidering my stance. I am hardly a dogmatic person. Faith and belief irritates me. So don’t even suggest that because I have one opinion now, it can’t undergo change because the facts change or new information comes to light. See, if you’re a republican that’s called lack of faith flip-flopping. If you’re an average person, that’s just referred to as rational thought. I know you know that so why bother implying otherwise?
Adam wrote, “the page right now features a long, angry (and well-written)”
I respond…
I am sincerely flattered beyond words. Thank you. That someone who gets paid actual money expresses that opinion in public means a great deal.
Now if you were being sarcastic…nah, you wouldn’t do that to me? Would you?
Adam wrote, “open letter to “the media” about how the media - none of it - serves the people any more. That is your opinion.”
I respond…
Yes Adam, it is my opinion and I think I plainly state it as such several times in the piece. Granted, I do leave some room in there for what I think is the decreasingly tiny minority of the media that does still have journalistic standards and does still serve us. But in essence, you’re right.
Adam wrote, “A few entries down, you link to a story from the AP to help make a point about President Bush.
To me, one person in that instance is being served by the media. Being served, in fact, by a fine reporter named Deb Reichmann, who wrote that report for the A.P. If she ever received thanks for this work, it did not come from you.
—–
By the way, the third Google hit I get for “Deb Reichmann” is a conservative blog excoriating her for “sidestepping questions about her antiwar bias.””
I respond…
Fair enough Adam. It was a cheap shot and I’ll admit it. I know nothing about the author and frankly, not knowing anything about said author, it was wrong of me to say what I did.
Now, going back over some of her stuff, it’s not as though she hasn’t done a little steno work once in a while.
Adam wrote, “As for me “certainly not coming from any higher moral ground yourself…” What the fuck? A little character assassination and floating innuendo based on my known association with Fox and NPR? Because you disagree with what you think I’m saying? That’s unfair.”
I respond…
This one is tough for give me if I wander a bit before I make my point, forgive me.
I was in the music business for a long time. One of the things you hear, very frequently, is how artists have “sold out”. And to be sure, many have sold out. But sometimes, even the ones who did a little whoring for some cash aren’t evil. “Everybody has to pay the rent” was my typical response. Unless you’re Paris Hilton, you’ve got to work for a living (ok, maybe there are a few others who can loaf on someone else’s dime I just like picking on Paris). And even artists have bills to pay.
As much as I love Bill Hicks, I think this is one area where he might have been just a bit too much of an absolutist. To him anyone who did a commercial was a whore and lost their integrity as an artist.
Now, on to my attempt to assassinate your character.
Let’s put it this way, do you think you would defend NPR as strongly as you do if you had no contact with anyone there and had never worked there? I’m not saying (or implying or floating anything) that your position is based solely on your economic and personal relationships with either organization. I am saying, specifically in the case of NPR, I wonder if you’re defense of them would be as strong if you had no connection there?
Maybe I’m projecting a little here but I’ve defended more than a few artists who music I didn’t really like but I hated to hear them slammed because I knew they were decent people. That said, my relationship with them didn’t improve the quality of their work it just meant I spoke up once in a while when I heard someone popping off that I thought was out of line (sound familiar?).
As for Fox. Sigh. Fucking Fox. Is there a better example of an empire? An evil empire? I mean, do we have to see rupert in his personal cryogenic chamber shaped like Big Boy to really understand him? I mean, it’s rupert “I’m going to own the world someday” fucking-murdoch. Do I think you’re evil because you took an offer to do a show for them? No Adam, I think you’re actually a pretty nice guy, awfully funny and hell, you put up with me here (and you said you visited my blog!), so no. I don’t think you’re evil or bad because you take cash from ol’ rupie. That said, I wish you didn’t have to. I wish that hoping for your personal success with the Spike show didn’t mean rupert collected a few bucks as well.
Life is complicated.
Another example, that list of companies that conspired with each other to not advertise on AAR. Holy hell, how could anyone manage to boycott all of them? I mean, the USPS and the Navy were on that list right along with 87 other of the largest companies in the world. Yet I cannot think of a group of companies that deserve to be bankrupted more than those on that list.
So maybe, maybe I stated what I thought badly. But Adam, I’m not defending Fox and NPR and frankly, I don’t want you to feel as though I am pushing you to do so. But I don’t think my criticism of either is unwarranted or not based on facts. So again I ask, what am I left with? What path should I be following here?
And then…
Adam wrote, “If taking money from either of those organizations for a job -for ANY job at all, apparently - has caused me to forfeit the “moral high ground” in your eyes… I suppose I’ll have to live with that.”
I respond…
You will. And I genuinely hope it’s not a heavy burden because, as I said, we all have to pay the rent. You have a family to take care of and frankly, I think you’re a gifted writer. I think you deserve financial support for your work. As I said above, do I wish it wasn’t from people that I think are undermining our media much more than I and my pathetic little blog could? Yes, I do. Hell, maybe you do as well. Maybe not. It’s not my concern. But I don’t think it’s entirely unfair to bring up the point that yes Adam, two of the groups we’re talking about here help pay your rent.
If said in that an offensive way, I am most sincerely sorry Adam. Personally insulting was not my goal and hey, I can be a dick. Believe me, I hear it often enough. But even being a dick doesn’t prove my underlying point is wrong, only that I’m not a strong enough writer to couch my criticism is better terms.
Adam wrote, “Forgive me if I sound angry, iceweasel. But those are my opinions, love ‘em or hate ‘em.”
I respond…
I am certainly not looking for an apology from you and I don’t think you owe me or anyone here one. You have your opinions just like we all do. And I don’t hate your opinions, in some senses, we’re not that far apart. In others, we just disagree. I think, in the long run, you and I are headed in the same direction on a number of issues.
But like you, I’m just popping off with how I feel. It’s not meant to intentionally hurt anyone here. It’s just the way I feel. And trust me, I would vastly prefer not to feel this way. I’m not anarchist who desires the destruction of modern society. I just want things to be a little more fair, a little more honest. I know that’s idealistic and naive. I know it’s not even entirely practical. But as you say, that’s the way I feel.
To summarize, we disagree on how to solve the problem of eroding or missing journalistic standards and how to counter a media that is increasingly only speaking for its’ patrons. I think it’s time for something else and if in making way for something else, we have to tear down the model that exists, it’s not because many of us haven’t tried to fix the current system. You seem to fault blogs for much of this. I think that’s wrong.
Thanks again Adam for taking as much time as you did to respond to me. I very much appreciate it.
Adam Felber
January 8, 2007 at 1:27 am
17Okay.
iceweasel - thanks for your response. I’m not a big fan of the fisking, though. But it’s good to think these things through.
- In general, I worry that you’re being a bit… um… self-oriented here. Most of what I said about liberal bloggers was NOT about you in particular. Except for the section where I specifically reference your blog , I was speaking in general. So all this “What do you want from ME?” stuff… my answer is simply that I wasn’t talking specifically to you. I don’t expect you to have a Game Plan. When I talk about what “liberals” tell me, I am not saying that YOU said it. I do in fact know other liberals, including myself.
The effects of group behavior is a complex topic, and it is at the heart of what I’m saying here. Nobody who drives to work is specifically and personally melting the polar icecaps. No one reporter quoting a Republican talking point is personally Deceiving the Public. And no single blogger lashing out at the imaginarily monolithic “media” is personally eroding public faith and destroying the very concept of knowable and objective truth.
But all of those things ARE happening. The only difference I see is that most environmentally conscious drivers don’t pretend that they’re not part of the the problem.
Once again, I’m not talking specifically to YOU here. I’m just sayin’.
The icecaps ARE melting. And Truth is almost completely deniable nowadays, and it’s getting worse. You can say that us liberals are not part of the problem, that it’s the other guys. I do not agree. I think it’s MOSTLY the other guys, but the rationalists have abandoned their role in defending the vital link to the real world: the reporters. Not the commentators - hell with ‘em (much as I love Keith Olbermann, David. AND much as I love me.) - the people who tell us the who, what and where. Bloggers don’t do that, not too much. I don’t do it. You don’t do it. Governments do it, but I don’t trust ‘em so much. It’s the AP and the New York Times and all those cursed “media” people, and without them we are all quite literally blind to the world and arguing about shadows on the wall.
That’s pretty much where we’re going, in my opinion. And I think the left has quite suddenly begun to help the far right get us there.
- As David points out, the news media was -in general - AWOL after 9/11. The only comparable period was the years after Pearl Harbor. The difference, of course, is that we faced a coherent enemy and limited choices in those years, so if the news media exhibited borderline cowardice, it seems less egregious. They were being patriots. Had WWII been a more complex conflict, these same complaints would’ve been echoing around throughout the mid 40’s. The truth is that the press has rarely - if ever - led the charge. What they have done - and continue to do - is report things that actually happen because they send people to witness it or talk to witnesses.
- I defend NPR because I find your characterization to be grossly unfair and untrue. Look at that list you made of “NicePoliteRepublicans.” Your feelings about their work aside, I know your analysis to be - quite simply - untrue. I do not defend them because I am biased towards them. I simply can look at your list and know that there are several flaming, frothing liberals on it, and that they are doing their level best to adhere to the journalistic standards that they studied and revere. Whether they succeed in your eyes, I don’t think is the issue. Call ‘em failures if you like, and I won’t jump at you. But your insults are simply… insults. And in point of fact wrong.
- I DO think your statements about my taking bucks from Fox and NPR are off-base - I don’t think that it compromises me in any moral sense and I think your somewhat nebulous accusation was facile and off-point. To make a ridiculous but- I think - interesting comparison: Just because your tax money has paid for the slaughter of hundreds of innocent Iraqi women and children doesn’t mean that I think you have forfeited some imaginary moral high ground to some, say, Swiss guy. And I would not respect you more if you had not paid your taxes. Less, in fact. Life, as you say, is complicated.
- And yes, finally, I do believe that the election of George Bush in 2004 was due, in part, to the loss of public perception of an objective press. To me, that’s the biggest thing that needs repair in this country. And it’s done the way our liberal forbears did it - with calm reason and carefully-selected moments of vehemence in the face of unrelenting, screaming bile and distortions.
It’s slower and less personally, immediately gratifying than most of what I see On The Blogs. But if you want to know what my solution is, that’s it. 9/11 shook our institutions, but it didn’t destroy them - only WE can do that now. We need to return to the reasoned and logical tactics that advanced liberal causes from the 50’s all the way through the Clintonian 90’s. We should leave the screaming, generalizing, hate-filled demagoguery to the side that invented it.
Or we could just all become satirists. It’s honest work.
ice weasel
January 8, 2007 at 7:00 am
18I actually had to wiki “fisking”. I’m from San Francisco, at first glance I thought you wrote “fisting” and wondered why in the hell you even brought that up.
But I’m all straightened out now.
A few things and no more fisking (what an ugly word).
You mistake what you think is self-orientation for an honest and more general inuiry. You repeatedly state that I and a large group of people are dead wrong. So, what is it you would have us do? In your final paragraph you talk around a word now making a huge comeback, “civility”. Civility, in the mouths of the whining republicans seems to be a euphamism for “please shut up”. Or perhaps more to the point, “Don’t do to us what we’ve done to you”. In that last part perhaps there is a grain of truth. But I’m not advocating that nor do I think are most liberal bloggers. What I do see is a lot of people angrily refuting, many times with facts and cogent commentary, the lies and distortions that have been promulgated throughout the media and government for the last, oh, pick any number between one and twenty years. Someone once opined that was easier to motivate people through one small appeal to the emotions than it was through a whole series of rational, logical arguments. The republicans have certainly proven this point over and over again over the last few decades. While deep in my heart I would much prefer the type of discourse you outline I also know that it hasn’t worked because whenever such an argument is mustered the response is to discuss that emotional appeal. The media, all facets of it, have most enthusiastically participated in this aiding the republicans. When Gore wanted to talk about issues, the media ranted about his him inventing the internet and the rest of Gore’s purported “lies”. At what point is then acceptable to just look at your opposition and say, “Guess what? You’re completely full of shit and you’re hurting this country by not honestly discussing the issue?” So I’ll, in a slightly different form, ask again, do you really think that by being more civil, more polite and dignified we’ll advance progressive arguments?
In my lifetime (I was born at the dawning of the sixties) I have not seen this liberal media that supposedly existed. I have seen a media that went after a sitting president who clearly and egregious violated the law. If that was a partisan attack then perhaps I need to wiki a few more terms. I think the liberal media has always been a myth. It has during my life at least. So if we use that myth as a starting you can see we’ve already framed the argument to the benefit of the republicans.
I think, as we probably both already know, that we’re just going to disagree on the percentages of who and what are at fault here. And as I said before that may not be even the most important thing but rather, what we do going forward. I know you think that without the NYT and the AP we’re “blind” as a country. I suppose. However, I would suggest that we’ve been blinded, overwhelmingly, for some time now. How much more blind we could be might be a discussion point but I think it misses the point. The institutions are, in my opinion, already broken, not sort of or a bit broken, utterly broken.
There’s the popular metaphor of the pendulum. The pendulum swings back and forth and overall, it averages out to the center. The problem we have is two fold. First off, the extremes have been grossly redefined. What used to be considered left and left and right are, these days, really center and extreme right. The left has, for the most part, been shut out of the argument. For many detailed and thoughtful examples of this check out David Neiwert’s brilliant blog Orcinus. Of course, David is a writer and freelance journalist who just happens to be a blogger as well, so maybe he doesn’t count in the group of lefty blogs that do report and offer serious, informed commentary. Without getting snarkier I’ll leave it at that. Suffice to say, even if that metaphorical pendulum swung all the way to the perceived left, who would find? Aside from a Kucinich or Feingold (the rare exceptions) we’d find the Liebermans and the Landrieus and the blue dogs. Not really what I would consider the pinko commie horde at the gates. Right wing eliminationist rhetoric (thanks Dave) is the norm. That’s the middle. That the mainstream, primetime political opinion offered. And you want to balance that again how?
Ok, I have to do one “fisking” (if that’s even the right word for it):
To make a ridiculous but- I think - interesting comparison: Just because your tax money has paid for the slaughter of hundreds of innocent Iraqi women and children doesn’t mean that I think you have forfeited some imaginary moral high ground to some, say, Swiss guy. And I would not respect you more if you had not paid your taxes. Less, in fact. Life, as you say, is complicated.
Actually, I don’t see your argument as ridiculous at all (and maybe that says more about me than I want). And I think your comparison is entirely accurate. You know what, I may have protested, made calls written letters but you know, I didn’t really do more than that to help stop this Iraq nightmare. I don’t know that there is anything I could have done to stop it but I do know that the money I’ve paid into good ol’ george has gone directly to the war effort. That mythical guy in Switzerland (over-priced, watchmaking bastard that he is) truly does have some, however slight, moral ground to stand on. I think the argument as a whole is ridiculous but the technical point is there and correct. It doesn’t make that watch-making, neutral bastards argument stronger but he does have claim to some measure, no matter how small, of objectivity that I could not lay claim to.
Finally with regard to NPR. I have to come clean here. It’s always been my hope that because you were involved there that something, maybe even a diluted version of something I wrote here would find it’s way back to someone at NPR maybe someone who could make some small difference. I know they don’t listen to me. So why not you?
Adam, I would suggest that my connection to NPR, though not as direct is as yours is every bit as strong. I might guess my connection to NPR is longer than yours and it’s not even that these comparisons make any difference. It’s not a contest. My point is that it distresses me at a deeply personal level to see an institution that I love, truly love, an institution that I have supported with my money and my time for many years sink into the swamp that other media outlets have. It’s especially hurtful and it leaves a void in my life. NPR used to be an enormous part of my life.
You tell me that my “list” is flawed because you know that someone on the list is “flaming, frothing liberal”. Maybe so, but all I know, all I can know is what I hear and what I hear disgusts me. And don’t you dare say it’s because I want someone to beat the shit out of bush or I want them to be more stridently lefty. Hell Adam, I’d love it if they could just capture half of the objectivity they used to display every day. NPR was only a liberal oasis to wingnuts. Sure, it has some very liberals programming but by and large, it was, at one time, a haven for accurate and objective reporting and intelligent discussion. Now, sadly, I see it sinking right along side the major broadcast networks in repeating, not reporting. And yes Adam, if anyone in the media repeats a lie, a known distortion, then they are complicit with that lie. If in presenting “both sides” of the story they present the center and right, then they are complicit with the rest of media skewing true objectivity into something else.
See it from my side if you can. You may think I’m being grossly unfair, I think something I’ve counted on has been and is being degraded. I wish they exhibited the strength of their convictions and told the wingnuts to fuck off (metaphorically of course) and reported the facts. Instead it’s seemingly devolved into a news organ all too similar to other networks.
One reason I stay away from here is not to get into the NPR thing. It’s too close to home for me. So maybe I need to keep to that policy. This isn’t just some detached political wank for me, talking about NPR. It’s about something that has been part of my life since I was, more or less, a kid.
Adam, I always had this feeling that you feel as though you’ve somehow failed as blogger when someone manages to draw you out for one of these extended discussions (with me or anyone else). I could very well be wrong but if I’m not I have to say, I think it’s some of the strongest stuff on your blog. Whether I agree with you or not, you put forth your arguments eloquently and you manage, even in the face of personal insult, to maintain your composure (something I’ve never learned to do). So I hope I’m wrong and I hope you keep getting sucked into these threads to add to the discussion.
That’s it. I have to try and go earn a few blood-stained dollars.
siobhan
January 8, 2007 at 8:04 am
19This I believe: Don’t let the perfect stand in the way of the good.
This I also believe: That doesn’t let you off the hook for trying to improve.
Could NPR be better? Yes. (Their recent participation in the Kerry-botched-joke clusterfuck could even upgrade the answer to “hell, yes”.) Still, I’m glad to have had them as a resource during this last election cycle.
In any organization large enough to be capable of sustained news gathering and reporting, someone has to make editorial decisions and sometimes you’re not going to agree with those decisions. I suspect there are times that even Rupert Murdoch doesn’t like what he’s seeing on his outlets.
David
January 8, 2007 at 8:27 am
20Reasoned debate and informed discussion of the issues do not win elections. In fact, no one could represent the polar opposite better than the current occupant of the White House. That is the greatest frustration with which we find ourselves faced. But reasoned debate and informed discussion of the issues can attract both younger minds and those who find themselves in some way disenfranchised by current realities. Perhaps all we can ever do is try to look to the future, and to the discussions occurring among those from ages 8 to 21 or so.
The only thing that advanced the Civil Rights movement in the South, as best I remember (I was a college student beginning in 1960), were the dogged determination of activists, especially Southern black activists and their white fellow travelers, and the infusion of activists from more enlightened sections of the country, many of whom were driven by progressive religious beliefs. Reasoned debate seems to me to have played very little part, except among young people.
MLK, Jr., brought a voice, a charisma, and an abililty to raise a Biblical sense of injustice to Americans in general. But it took the pictures of dogs and fire hoses being turned on Blacks, goon squad policemen brutalizing marchers and jerking American flags out of the hands of Black children, and scenes of murder finding their way into the the living rooms of average Americans that spelled the albeit still entirely too slow demise of apartheid in America.
Still, perhaps, it would not have been possible were it not for a bunch of Age of Enlightement Americans and a Constitution that included the most important ten amendments ever penned.
Damned, this really is complicated.
David
January 8, 2007 at 8:36 am
21Thanks again, waterfowler. By gametime tonight, I will likely be certifiable. I will certainly be deep into the reptilian portion of my orange-and-blue brain.
David
January 8, 2007 at 8:39 am
22Clusterfuck is one of the great words ever added to America’s lexicon, and boy does it ever fit current realities.
ice weasel
January 8, 2007 at 8:46 am
23Damnit, I have to shut up but I need to add this. Siobahn, you are absolutely right. We are better with the NPR we have than none at all. At least, sort of better off.
But that said, we’re lowering the standards to say that aren’t we? And if we keep saying, “Well, NPR is better than most” eventually, it won’t be. I think we’re dangerously close to that now.
And unlike, perhaps, most of the people here and certainly our host, if we need to tear down these institutions to make room for newer, better ones, then let’s do it. As long as the networks can collect big money from advertisers for broadcasting crap, they will. As long as newspapers can make money printing bile, they will. As long the donations at NPR keep rolling in, I would most gently suggest that little, if anything there will change. On of the worst curses of the MBA craze of the eighties was that successful business model justified themselves. So what we’re left with today are CEO’s collecting $210 million dollar bonuses for being fired and newspapers with shrinking staffs and circulations but still making money so, they must be succeeding, right?
We must maintain our standards of service and quality or else, what’s the point? A bad, malfunctioning media doesn’t serve us better than none at all. And frankly, even that is a misstating of the issue. Our choice isn’t what we have or nothing. Our choice is what we have or something else, perhaps something better.
Harold
January 8, 2007 at 8:49 am
24AAAAGH! Why did work have to get busy NOW? I’m going to have to take a week or two off jut to catch up with this POST, let alone all the other (non-political) blogs I’m ignoring.
Ann
January 8, 2007 at 10:52 am
25You think you’ve got it rough, Harold—since I installed IE7, the lines/names don’t line up with the postings, and I can’t tell who has written what. This set of comments looks like one long rant by one person, so imagine how confusing THAT is!
sasquatch
January 8, 2007 at 11:26 am
26Adam: You are the most funny, self-deprecating, RATIONAL commentator that I have yet come across. Did I mention hilarious? I’ve followed your blog since I first heard about it on Wait Wait, and I’ve never been disappointed (except when you don’t write!). We lefties need more level-headed people like you to keep us honest.
Thanks for all you do, and please don’t let one guy with a worldview seriously dented by your opinion keep you from expressing it.
ice weasel: Take it easy bro. Adam’s not out to get the left or the blogosphere, he’s trying to make a point about how they may be unintentionally causing the problems they so want to solve. Sorry you don’t agree with his opinion, but personal attacks are really unnecessary.
Adam Felber
January 8, 2007 at 11:39 am
27Whew - this has been good, But I’m going to bow out of the conversation soon. Still -
ice weasel, I agree with a small part of what you’re saying, much of it I do not. But I must say that giant exaggerations in the service of larger truths are still giant exaggerations. A news media that is “utterly broken” would be incapable of bringing you today’s worldwide temperatures, let alone ANY knowledge whatsoever of what’s going on in the rest of the world.
A news media that is “utterly broken” doesn’t function at all. A news media that is “utterly broken” should not be defended, because there is nothing to defend. If the news media is “utterly broken” then I would assume that everything that you know about Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, CEO’s salaries, Hurricane Katrina, and Darfur… you know from our trustworthy government. Or bloggers.
Because that is probably NOT the case, then what possible good do you think this “utterly broken” bullshit is accomplishing?
Forgive me, but reading such strident pronouncements makes me wish that you could be - even for a moment - plunked down in a world where the news media truly is absolutely, completely, utterly broken.
It is dangerous - horribly dangerous - to pretend that there’s nothing to protect anymore. Because the other side DOES feel that way. And we CAN lose what we have. Your easy dismissal of what we still have… is painfully shortsighted. There is a difference between “celebrating” it and acknowledging it. Isn’t there any to actually LEARN from this Jamil Hussein insanity, or is it just another opportunity to bash the right?
You are not the first person I’ve read lately who’s made such pronouncements about the news media, and my reaction is always “Wow. Do they actually not understand what is at stake here? Do they not understand how much more we are in danger of losing? Do they just trust that some other “adults” are going to hold the line for the free press while they play around in Ann Coulter’s Sandbox of Demagoguery?
Again, this is one of the ways that I see the left playing into the right’s hands.
Accuracy is important. We’re the side that used to think so. But intemperate pronouncements and demagoguery are becoming OUR tools as well, and that is quite simply a blind and harmful trend.
Finally, you said, way back, “I don’t give a flying fuck what conservatives think of anything…”
I do. They ran the world for the past six years, and we’re in danger of giving it right back to them. People HAVE to give a flying fuck what they think about EVERYTHING. Giving a flying fuck, knowing what they’re going to do, is the difference between whining and actually fighting.
To me, it’s understanding the other side’s lies AND their sincere opinions, and figuring out how to counter them while maintaining our own honesty, abandoning the infantile perception of a monolithic Right while allowing some of them to maintain their illusions about an absolute Left… well, that’s the hard, necessary work. If we do it right, maybe next time the other side won’t have to lose a frickin’ WAR in order for us to win an election.
—
Finally, I’m surprised you reference Orcinus. I love that blog, and want to point out this: Orcinus did an admiral job of standing up for the AP during this Jamil Hussein nonsense. Because Orcinus understands that thee AP deserves to be stood up for, because although it is flawed, it is demonstrably not “utterly broken.”
Alright. I’m going back to the business of Funny.
siobhan
January 8, 2007 at 1:07 pm
28Thanks, Adam. That was perfect. I wish I could frame my thoughts so well; glad that someone out there can.
Steve
January 8, 2007 at 1:18 pm
29Bravo, sir.
sasquatch
January 8, 2007 at 2:41 pm
30Indeed, very well said. Can’t wait for more Funny!
It's Pat!
January 8, 2007 at 2:54 pm
31Personally, I only watch Reality TV, so I don’t know what all the fuss is about.
David
January 8, 2007 at 4:34 pm
32The hell with going back to. Just keep on doing what that little motivator in your head tells you to do at any given moment. I like funny, I like serious, I like light-hearted, I like intense. I also like being in the national championship game. Sonofabitch. This thing is about to happen. Hope I am deliriously happy about 4 hours from now.
SeattleDan
January 8, 2007 at 8:35 pm
33Ann, I just installed IE7 too and am having the same problem. And it seems to be only at FA that I have the problem. At home with the Mac, everything is fine. At work with the PC, well, I couldn’t tell who was writing what.
Ann
January 8, 2007 at 8:46 pm
34Isn’t that sweet—Microsoft produces software that runs best on a Mac! Don’t tell Bill I said that.
Gator David
January 8, 2007 at 9:18 pm
3541-14!
Thanks for the mojo, waterfowler. The entire Gator nation thanks you, my man.
Dale
January 8, 2007 at 9:20 pm
36David: breathe in, breathe out. Try not to spike anything you might need in the morning (the Dutch crystal, your wife, the dog, etc.). And congrats!
hedera
January 8, 2007 at 9:25 pm
37Harold, I’m with you. I have a meeting tomorrow morning at 7 ungodly A.M. and I could NOT quit reading this thread… I’m going to regret this in the morning…
SeattleTammy
January 8, 2007 at 9:49 pm
38Since da Boss installed IE7 at SMB, we have pretty sparkly new fonts, but a lot of our emails are not going through. That gets interesting when you’re trying to book 75 authors for Left Coast Crime convention.
Adam, kudos once again!
The FanAp elves
January 9, 2007 at 12:09 am
39Ann, SeattleDan and SeattleTammy, I’ll work on the IE7 style problem. You’ll know it’s fixed when…it’s fixed. Until then, on behalf of all the FanAp elves, I’d like to recommend Firefox as a backup (it also makes an excellent primary browser and comes in your choice of strawberry, orange or grape. Okay, not really, but it’s highly customizable!).
The FanAp elves
January 9, 2007 at 1:11 am
40Okay, IE7 should now display the comments correctly.
Harold
January 9, 2007 at 7:58 am
41If anyone is having problems with Firefox related to the file js3250.dll, stop by my place. I’ve got a fix listed. By the dozens of people hitting my site searching for information on this problem, I think it’s pretty common.
Getting back to the main thread - which I still have only skimmed, for the most part - well, there’s a reason I call my blog Another Monkey. I’ve sen a lot of bloggers become downright delusional with the belief that they, unheeded by (roughly) 99.99% of the world as they stand alone on their particular soapboxes, have discovered The Truth, and they start picking fights with other wild-eyed bloggers who are similarly convinced that they have been made the sole recipients of The Truth. Even I get that way sometimes. And then I look at the name of my blog, and I am reminded of the quote from Robert Wilensky: “We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.” Keep that in mind as you watch these online ideologically-driven slap-fights in progress.
dee
January 9, 2007 at 10:18 am
42Alas, I am also too much constrained by work (after having been off for three weeks) and then by transcendant fatigue after work (the afteraffects of dealing with three weeks’ worth of work in one day) to respond to this post in the thoughtful manner it deserves. I can’t get much past “I’m rubber, you’re glue…”
SeattleDan
January 9, 2007 at 10:24 am
43I can see clearly now, the rain is gone.
Thanks, FanAp Elves!
Just Jay
January 9, 2007 at 11:03 am
44Speaking of back to the Funny. I started this morning reading the previous entry because I wanted to add a Michelle Malkin note. When I clicked on the “go forward” link at the bottom of the page, I got this:
Error 403
We’re sorry, but we could not fulfill your request for /2007/01/06/why-you-shouldnt-read-this/ on this server.
You do not have permission to access this server.
Your technical support key is: 402a-3d3c-dfd9-b1ad
You can use this key to fix this problem yourself.
If you are unable to fix the problem yourself, please contact musicaddict at gmail.com and be sure to provide the technical support key shown above.
I guess Adam really was serious about not reading this.
By the way, the comment I posted in the Michelle Malkin post was a link to this oddly appropriate Word A Day page.
Jay
Ann
January 9, 2007 at 11:52 am
45I now believe in elves. Thank you.
We now return to your regularly scheduled debate.
David
January 9, 2007 at 3:42 pm
46Ann,
You ever doubted?
Chapter 4 of Obama’s new book The Audacity of Hope (imagine italics), “Politics,” proved a most interesting read piggybacked onto this thread.
Dale,
I managed not to break anything in my, shall we say, state of exuberance.
hedera
January 9, 2007 at 4:51 pm
47Hot DAMN! FanAp Elves, you did it. I’m still going to use Firefox, but at least IE7 now displays comments correctly.
It still opens an entire new browser window when you tell it to “open in new tab”, but I’m sure they’ll get that right eventually.
On the general subject of the thread: once again, I stand with Harold. (We must meet sometime, Harold.) The ability to post one’s opinions on the Internet sometimes does give one the impression that there’s more weight to one’s opinions than may actually be the fact. No one person is in full possession of The Truth, no matter what he may think.
Much as I respect ice weasel, I don’t think the situation is as bad as he thinks it is. I think his dismay at what he remembers NPR to have been once, compared to what it is now, has caused him to react to their present state in a way that looks more like grief than anything else, to me. My personal take on NPR is that they’re still head and shoulders above the other news channels; this may be related to the quality of KQED, which I consider quite good. I don’t know what ice’s local station may be like.
I don’t think the fourth estate was ever, as a whole, quite as sterling and independent and moral as we’d like to believe it was, way back when. Read the history of some of the 19th century political campaigns, for printed invective that even Uncle Rupert wouldn’t dare publish today. There have always been, and there still are, dedicated and zealous reporters and publishers, trying to come as close to the truth as they can, and publish it, in the face of opposition from the government and the business community. There also have always been, and still are, dedicated and zealous people using the news media as a tool to push personal agendas. (Bill O’Reilly isn’t very nice, but he’s dedicated and zealous.) Keep reminding yourself: William Randolph Hearst did a lot to cause the Spanish-American War, because wars sell newspapers; and Joseph Pulitzer helped him. (If you ever get a Pulitzer prize, Adam, remember that.)
hedera
January 9, 2007 at 4:56 pm
48Jay, I adore the Word a Day!
cooper
January 9, 2007 at 6:22 pm
49(Bill O’Reilly isn’t very nice, but he’s dedicated and zealous.) hedera, you forgot “pompous liar” and “inveterate stupidhead”.
hedera
January 9, 2007 at 6:29 pm
50I didn’t forget, cooper; I’m merely rationing my compliments to Mr. O’Reilly.
Boomer
January 9, 2007 at 6:44 pm
51OT - This may be old news to some of you but, so much for Papal Infallibility.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/01/07/polish_arc hbishop_resigns_in_spying_row/
David
January 10, 2007 at 7:44 am
52The history of the fourth estate is somewhere between checkered and utterly abysmal, but it’s hard not to have hoped that what we saw with the inception of NPR and the sobering effect of the Viet Nam War and Watergate on the major media meant something for the long haul. And it has also been very hard to accept media consolidation as it has devolved.
hedera,
There are some exceptional NPR stations, along with an amazing community station in Tampa, WMNF. And while Adam is correct that we can still extract a great deal of needed, primarily factual information from the media if we will but look, the thrust of the fourth estate over the past decade, compared to the thrust of the fourth estate say 1965-1975 (a period not without its shortcomings), the comparison does not suggest we are headed in a positive direction, just as the thrust of the federal government under contemporary Republican domination has been anything but headed in a positive direction (except for the short-term interests of the very wealthy).<