I’m still out of sorts. It’s been two days and I can’t stop thinking about what happened. I’m angry.
No, fists were not thrown. Still it was a very heated altercation, my first as in adult in a public space. Security had to be called. Appropriately enough it was at a sports arena - the BankNorth Garden in Boston.
It was at the Barbra Streisand concert on Sunday night. She played Boston and I shelled out the per capita income of Bolivia to sit in the third row. I’m a big fan - not of everything she’s done. I’ve avoided certain of her more ill-advised ventures, just in case I meet her one day. I wouldn’t want to have to say I loved Nuts or The Mirror Has Two Faces or that album where she wore Superman pajamas on the cover. Plausible deniability is crucial.
From the very start of the evening I was rattled. I was supposed to be sitting in the center. Instead I was directly stage right which meant that I would be staring at her profile the whole time. Then again the nose is part (most?) of the whole package. What’s more the cool Rhode Island lesbian couple next to me - they’d seen her three times before - said they chose to sit there because Barbra thinks her right side is her bad side so she tends to actually face right so that the people stage right see her head on. (Got it? Just make sure you don’t sit stage left, unless you’re a fan of Barbra Streisand’s butt.)
By the way the arena was packed to the gills with lesbians. Huh? Since when did Barbra Streisand become Joan Armatrading?
Anyway the second row was empty up until about 7:50. Then four broads (the technical term for these women) came in. Puffy-faced, fifty-something boozehounds. Overly made up, fake-tanned former party girls. Married now, probably unhappily. (They all had wedding rings.) The types of women who screamed racial epithets during the Boston busing crisis of the early 70s. A couple of them maybe slept with Ted Kennedy during one of his benders. They never quite worked their way up to Bobby. Loyal to each other, in college they held each other’s hair back when they vomited at the tailgate parties.
Now they were drinking wine since that’s “classy.” (They started swilling a couple of hours before, in the white stretch they rented for the night.) The ringleader had a cast on her right foot. She propped it up on the empty seat in front of her.
As soon as the lush 60-piece orchestra began playing the overture, trouble was brewing. The broads were yapping away. I couldn’t say anything since, as any theatergoer knows, it’s become acceptable unfortunately to talk during the overture. I was concerned.
Then Barbra Streisand emerged. She rose from below centerstage. She’s 64 now, sporting the Mom-from-Scarsdale look. She was mellow and sounded tremendous singing “Starting Here, Starting Now.”
“Bahbra! Ovah heah!” yelled the injured one as she dropped her (third) plastic wine glass. I didn’t have a huge problem with that. She’s a fan, I thought. She’s allowed to act out a little.
Except that the broads weren’t really fans. The proof? When Streisand began singing “People” one of the other boozehounds got on her cellphone!!!
“Can you believe it? I’m at the Bahbra Streisand Cawnsuht!” she wailed. (Imagine Lina Lamont from Singin’ in the Rain transplanted to South Boston.)
One of the Rhode Island lesbians to my right suddenly looked distressed. I decided I needed to defend civilized people everywhere. (Plus this cawnsuht was costing me almost eight dollahs a minute!)
“Turn off the cellphone,” I snapped. I didn’t shout but my voice was very tight. I know that I must have looked like a troubled young man. (Like Montgomery Clift in A Place in the Sun. Handsome, but troubled.) The ringleader slowly turned her head in disbelief.
“Whaddid you say?” she snarled.
“I said ‘Turn off the cellphone’ and stop talking.” I was still barely in control. “I paid [embarrassing amount of $ here] to see this. Stop talking. Now. Just stop talking.”
“We can tahk if we want. We paid money, too. Jeez, can ya believe this guy, tellin’ us to stop tahking?”
“… people who need peeeeeeeople..” sang Streisand, not twenty feet from us. I simply could not believe that this glorious moment was being ruined by these whoahs. I lost it.
“SHUT UP!” I screamed.
“YOU shaddup! Tellin’ me to shaddup. Yuh trash. That’s what yuh ah. Trash!”
“… are the luckiest people … in … the …”
“BUTTON IT!!!”
“… wooooooooorrrrlllllld!”
“DON’T TELL ME TO BUTTON NUTHIN’!”
Finally an attendant came over to quiet us all and make the cellphone talker turn off her phone.
What happened from there is anticlimactic and sad. The broads kept talking throughout the first act, just to get me upset.
“Evehgreen! From a Stah is Bahn!”
“Remembah Kris Kristoffahson?”
“Oh, yah. He was wicked hot.”
“Hey, wheah’s Barry Gibb?”
At intermission I reported these harridans to security. The cop must have felt bad for me. (At this point I was Tony Perkins at the end of Psycho.) He reprimanded them. But like truly horrible people, they found a way to get at me even worse. They whispered throughout the second act. It was actually more irritating than their first act talking but it wasn’t a reportable offense. I was stuck.
My only satisfaction came at the end, during the encore performance of “Don’t Rain On My Parade.” Everyone stood cheering. The drunk injured one was helped to her feet - then fell backward! Her back banged against the top of her seat. I prayed for an injury, at least a sprain. She was pretty trashed, I guess.
“C’mon. Lez go.” The other boozehounds propped her up and carried her out.
I don’t know what else I could have done. I had complained to them, then called security. But they were intent on ruining my evening.
What would you have done??!!
More importantly, what has the world come to? When did people become so RUDE?! And why didn’t those lesbians from Rhode Island back me up?!





107 comments
Dale
October 24, 2006 at 7:25 pm
1What happened to those awesome karate moves you showed off on Leno? Or couldn’t you borrow one of the more menacingly toothed members of the Animal Planet show to accompany you to public events? (Of course, I volunteer for the bodyguard job, but I don’t know how effective a 4′10′’ 75 lb bodyguard would be. I do give good moral support.)
Rebecca
October 24, 2006 at 8:00 pm
2Being very non-confrontational, I think I would have skipped the “complaining to them personally” part, and gone straight to the “reporting them to security” part. Also, I probably wouldn’t have spent so much money on a concert, but that’s just because I don’t make that much money in the first place.
By the way, I think you forgot an y in everything up in the 3rd paragraph. Thought you might like to know!
PS I’m new ’round this here website, and I love everything I’ve read so far! And I adore Mo and Adam from WWDTM, which is how I found this place to begin with. So, um, hi! And now it’s back to lurking…
George
October 24, 2006 at 8:18 pm
3Did the Main Event notice the broads that belong on Animal Planet?
Mo Rocca
October 24, 2006 at 8:32 pm
4Thanks, Rebecca, for catching that. I’ve corrected it. Welcome to FanAp.
George, I don’t know if Barbra noticed the broads. She was so close to us yet still seemed otherworldy. Plus psychoanalysis has liberated her from dependence on the approval of others. So even if she heard their braying, she probably didn’t care.
I’ve already been having fantasies of Barbra Streisand calling me to apologize for their behavior, then inviting me to her Malibu home and singing the whole concert to me in her solarium. (She can skip “The Music of the Night” from Phanton.)
Karen
October 24, 2006 at 8:38 pm
5Similar thing happened to me at a New Year’s concert in the classiest venue in town. The lineup included a famous opera baritone (local boy makes good), a classic Motown group, and so forth. There was a 60-something guy next to me—old enough to know better—who sang along with every song he knew, even when the baritone was soloing. When I asked him to stop, he said “I paid for this ticket, I’ll do what I want.” Now I know he was raised in an era when you didn’t talk or sing during public performances, because he was older than me and I know that. I just fumed through the rest of the show—I wasn’t close enough to an aisle to get an usher to help.
Don’t get me started about movie theaters. Some of my friends won’t even go anymore. Movies are already expensive, but I’d pay more just to have effective ushers!
George
October 24, 2006 at 8:43 pm
6The anger/frustration you get when people are rude hit me the hardest when I was out in public with my daughters during their pre-teen years. Invariably, there would be some guy recounting his exploits for the benefit of everyone in earshot and dropping the strategic f-bomb every 4 or 5 words.
Different situation to yours, Mo, but similar enough. I had to set a good example for the girls and avoid getting my butt kicked. I would try to think of a way to appeal to their better nature, but there was nothing to appeal to. The only success I had was when we made eye contact and I pointedly glanced at my girls.
Maybe psychoanalysis is the answer … for everyone.
Siobhan
October 24, 2006 at 9:41 pm
7Back in the early days of the Well, the most active part was the Deadhead bulletin board. (showing my demographics entirely too clearly… sorry.) One innovative suggestion that came up there was: the Asshole Seating Section at concerts. Kinda like a smoking section. When you buy your ticket, you specify Asshole or Non-Asshole seating. If you are found to be acting like an Asshole in the Non-Asshole section, you will be asked to leave.
It made sense that this idea would emerge from a group of people who went to hundreds of concerts every year. Getting them to agree on what would constitute Asshole behavior was a different challenge but - hey, not my job.
I imagine Fanny won’t like this, but we’ll see how it goes.
Mo Rocca
October 24, 2006 at 9:56 pm
8Great idea, Siobhan. The A-Hole section idea sounds perfect. And Karen, thanks for sharing your story. I’m with your friends on the the movie theater issue.
Dale, I’ll try bringing a komodo dragon. Or maybe a binturon! It’s a southeast asian relative of the raccoon that smells EXACTLY like buttered popcorn - so it’s easy to sneak into a theater. (Just hide it in a big bucket.) And the binturon BITES!
SeattleDan
October 24, 2006 at 10:14 pm
9Mo, when I think of you, the image of the young Montgomery Clift always comes to mind. Handsome and vulnerable. Sorry about the concert experience. (SeattleTammy says from her Nyquill induced stupor, “I’ve Been Wanting Popcorn”.)
Oddly, I woke up the other morning with “Dont Rain on My Parade” in my head. Coincidence? I think not.
Fran
October 24, 2006 at 11:28 pm
10On behalf of the Rhode Island lesbians (whom I’ve never met, and no, we don’t actually all know each other…and I’m standin’ by that!), I apologize. I suspect they were holding back because if one or either of them actually started to get involved, blood would be shed, and it’s SO hard to get out of polyester, which is what I’m assuming the broads were wearing.
Lillian and I don’t go to movies anymore for those exact reasons. I’ve discovered that the blue lights of cell phones and other electrical devices being activated for rabid text-messaging detracts from the action on the screen, and there WILL be bloodshed if I have to tell one more person to shut the hell up.
So we stay home.
But you have my complete and profound sympathy on your concert experience, Mo.
ice weasel
October 25, 2006 at 4:22 am
11I can’t believe you are complaining that boomers, the true greatest generation, were actually rude. Sure, they were exercised their freedom to pursue their own happiness. Sure, maybe their version happiness crashed into yours but hey, that’s America buddy. You’re just lucky you got to see an anti-American like Streisand at all.
David
October 25, 2006 at 4:23 am
12That would have been when my formative years running the orange groves with a bunch of other rowdy - but mostly civilized - Southern boys would have emerged. Barbra is that much in her own world on stage? I guess that makes sense. Mo, if you had killed them and I were on your jury, I would vote for acquittal.
aka H. Bogart
October 25, 2006 at 4:44 am
13“The only thing a dame understand is a slap in the mouth, or a slug from a 45.” My most famous line from the Woody Allen classic, “Play It Again, Sam” and it would have worked at the concert, too.
Not Humphrey Bogart, but the actor that looked and talked just like him in the movie and all those Aqua Velva commercials from the 1970’s. Yeah, that guy. You probably made more money that night on Leno than I made in my entire acting career. I’ve been working in the back of Csimszic’s Butcher Shop for the last 27 years, stuffing kielbasas and going over my best lines every day - over and over again. Vaslav quit laughing at them in 1980; I must be losing my edge. Mo, you’re still a hot commodity; what should I do? I crave the limelights but they won’t even let me work the counter anymore. You gotta help me kid! I can still do it, I know I can! Stop by sometime - I’ll do my routine. I tell you, you’ll never laughed so hard. You’ll see. Call me. Please!
Victoria
October 25, 2006 at 5:51 am
14At Brookfield Zoo there are a number of binturongs in the first exhibit from the entrance of an animal building. They are few, but their fragrance is so strong that they can be smelled at least 10 feet outside the closed doors on a windy day. My point is, I question the wisdom of bringing a rather stinky, skirling, rambunctious carnivore into the cinema–the experience would be failry unpleasant for you as well as for the rowdier patrons. Also, they smell about as much like buttered popcorn as the so-called buttered popcorn Jelly Belly beans do. I think they waft an air that’s a bit more like burnt buttered basmati.
Next time you’re in town for WWDTM, you can check the bints out. And that Montgomery Clift to Tony Perkins transformation? You just went from wicked hot to wicked hotter. They were baiting you to see if you’d go all the way to Tom Cruise on Oprah.
JOHN MURPHY
October 25, 2006 at 8:27 am
15Mo
If that every happens again please try this one.
You could say
“Excuse me, would you please go get a big rubber Penis and go screw yourself.”
JOHN MURPHY
October 25, 2006 at 9:36 am
16AAAAAAAAAAAAA
I just got hit by the Moderation queue for the very first time.
YIPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEE
Jango R
October 25, 2006 at 10:40 am
17Joan Armatrading is gay? NOOOOOOO!! Say it ain’t so!
YLlama
October 25, 2006 at 11:33 am
18I know that with certain unruly creatures, zookeepers tend to place a bag over their heads as a way of calming them down. I suggest that, when one encounters rude people at concerts (or plays, films, or the like), a paper grocery bag be strategically employed from here on out.
Michel Plamondon
October 25, 2006 at 12:32 pm
19I would have offred them a drink, laced with scopolamine then told them they needed to go back home to finish off their Jack Daniels.
Freewheelin' Franklin
October 25, 2006 at 2:23 pm
20YLlama, when the zookeepers put the bag over their heads, sure they don’t have to see the unruly creatures anymore, but how do they get their work done then? I mean even walking would be problematic.
Mike Z
October 25, 2006 at 2:29 pm
21Actually, I agree with the broads and with the old guy that Karen mentioned up in comment #5. They paid money too, so…you know…they should be allowed to do what they want.
For example, when I go to concerts, I spend the whole time kicking people in the shins. Everyone within range gets it at least three or four times before the encore. When they complain that my behavior decreases their enjoyment of the performance, I tell them that I paid money too, so they should just get over it. And then I start kicking them harder just to show ‘em.
Harold
October 25, 2006 at 2:38 pm
22Perhaps you should have simply lit a cigarette and started smoking (even if you don’t smoke, maybe you should carry a pack just for these situations.) If having smoke blown in their direction didn’t cause these gentlewomen to see the folly of their rudeness and narcissism, it would at least have gotten security down your way much more promptly. (Being thrown out for smoking would be an unfortunate side effect, but you could always try the “I paid good money for this seat, I can do what I want” arguement on the team of Security Guards that would descent on you, truncheons flying.)
Failing that, you could have posted a sign over their heads that said “WE LOVE GEORGE BUSH” and had Babs toss them out personally.
TuCats
October 25, 2006 at 2:43 pm
23Mo. Dude. You make your living in part as a writer. A typo? I’m a little rattled.
“I decided I needed to defend civilized people everything.”
I looked everywhere for the word you meant but couldn’t find it.
Benjamin
October 25, 2006 at 3:12 pm
24Mo,
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us. I really dislike that kind of confrontation and I can easily see myself doing the exact same things you’ve done including brooding and running it through my head for days afterward. Well, okay, I can’t see myself going to a Streisand concert in teh first place but I’m not one to judge other’s tastes.
By the way, is anyone else having an issue with the format of the comment section? The last couple of posts have been all wonky - The name of the commentor and their comment aren’t lined up and the line breaks between comments cut right through the middle of the comments.
gillian
October 25, 2006 at 4:16 pm
25Benjamin, not seeing that here. Maybe you should whack your computer. Or if that doesn’t work, well just look at it this way, Adam paid for this blog and he can do anything he wants to here.
Joan Armatrading is gay? Yeeeeaaahhh! Anyone got her cell number?
siobhan
October 25, 2006 at 7:07 pm
26Her cell number?!?!? I didn’t even know she was in prison!
piglet
October 25, 2006 at 7:15 pm
27Mo, I feel your pain. I am a Chris Isaak fan from way back. He’s got a set of pipes you have to hear to believe, and a deeply twisted sense of humor. His fans tend to be rabid and dedicated, and they will pay a premium to see him in concert.
Trouble is, those same rabid fans get so excited that when he hits those sweetest, most heart-wrenching notes of the saddest songs, they whistle and hoot.
WFT? Isn’t that what you came to hear, you yahoos?
I’ve given up. You can’t chase down all the a-holes. There are just too many of them.
Siobhan
October 25, 2006 at 8:36 pm
28Piglet: true, dat on Mr. Isaak. Been a fan since … oh, geez - I first saw him at Nine. How long ago was that?
Likewise, a few years back going to see Dire Straits. The funboys in front of us did Nugent-worthy yells all through “Romeo and Juliet”.
Mo, you’ve tapped a painful vein here. It’s the reason I don’t go to concerts anymore, pure and simple.
Hortense Mildred Grigsby
October 25, 2006 at 9:02 pm
29I had a similar experience recently. It was appalling–had an evening off, thought I’d treat myself to a film showing nearby and the youth in the audience talked through the WHOLE THING! It was so disruptive that if you asked me what the “Rocky Horror Picture Show” was about today, I wouldn’t be able to tell you.
SeattleDan
October 25, 2006 at 9:48 pm
30Great Scott, Hortense!
Rebecca
October 25, 2006 at 11:03 pm
31Hortense - were there some youth who decided to try and act out the movie in front of everyone as well? I’ve heard that’s popular with those kids nowadays too.
another YLlama
October 26, 2006 at 4:17 am
32“Hortense”… That’s a great name! So, did you really know anyone back home in Iowa by that name?
ice weasel
October 26, 2006 at 5:55 am
33Is it just me or has NPR News completely dropped the pretense of objectivity in favor of being and out-front, full-time, republican network? karl rove, ken mehlman, rick santorum this week balanced by, Bob Casey? And listen to Inskeep’s questions to the Casey versus santorum. He rails Casey. Santorum gets a nice, albeit brief fluffing.
Oh, and just to solidify Inskeep’s absolutely drop into whoredom, nice mehlman interview. Hey Steve, did you give mehlman a backrub as well as whole bunch of nice softballs? I suppose one can’t expect a newsreader such as Inskeep to actually be informed on the topics he’s discussing with mehlman and challenge mehlman on his lies (”I can’t legally pull that ad” to name just one). But still, we do wish for a time when that might be the case.
I don’t understand why the same people who wouldn’t think about donating to fox news or the washington times, support NPR? It baffles me. And this comes from a life long NPR supporter (I’ve donated to not one but two public stations at times).
David
October 26, 2006 at 6:12 am
34ice weasel,
Sadly, I have had the same experience way too often with NPR. While I do still hear some excellent stuff, that this cancer should even be invading NPR is appalling. It has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with truly irresponsible and at times incompetent journalism.
JOHN MURPHY
October 26, 2006 at 6:15 am
35Where in Iowa?
I spent 30 Years in Boone, Story, and Hardin counties
It's Pat!
October 26, 2006 at 7:13 am
36Geez John, what kind of crime did you commit to serve 30 years? I only had to do 23 yearts in Nebraska before I got out.
Ice and David, I thought that is spite of Inskeep’s fluff job, Santorum still sounded like a boob. Steve did get out a “humph” when Ricky metioned partitioning Iraq, which caused Ricky to get indignant and sound even dumber than usual.
I guess my question is, do the people who vote for Ricky listen to NPR anyway? Probably not. So…..maybe NPR should wash the sheets and stay out of bed with the big donors (I have no facts to back up my guess that I’m talking about big corporations)? Just wondering.
Harold
October 26, 2006 at 7:34 am
37I thought NPR was simply trying to be ironic and cagey during the reign of Bush the Lesser. Also trying to avoid having all CPB funds pulled and its entire staff relocated to Gitmo.
JOHN MURPHY
October 26, 2006 at 8:22 am
38So did anyone catch the math comment Karl Rove made to Robert Siegel. He said something like, your entitled to use your math but he (Rove) would use “The” Math. What scares me is that I think Rove actually believes what he is saying is true.
God help us all
Sharon
October 26, 2006 at 8:32 am
39Benjamin, did you just “upgrade” to IE7? There are apparently a few issues to be worked out. I’m not what they are, but this is the only forum where I’ve observed that problem so far. (I have IE6 at home, 7 at work.)
Maximum Bob
October 26, 2006 at 8:45 am
40Mo, I’m very sympathetic to your plight. There are days when I’m convinced that the greatest problem facing us as a species is how to deal with those who do not work and play well with others. Kim Jong Il and a drunk lady at a concert are just two faces of the same conundrum. Although, admittedly, the drunk lady probably can’t call in an air strike.
Benjamin
October 26, 2006 at 11:16 am
41Let’s bring the discussion back to me…
Thank you Maximum Bob (At least I think it was Bob, I can’t be sure with the state of my version of the comments). I did switch to IE7 here at work. That’s why it’s all wonky.
I’ll have to ready at home for now.
SeattleDan
October 26, 2006 at 11:37 am
42John Murphy, I did hear Rove talking about “the” math. I don’t think he has any inside numbers that no one else has. I just hope he wasn’t referring to the program that will be installed into the Diebold machines.
ice weasel
October 26, 2006 at 12:04 pm
43Yes, rove was typically arrogant. If you’ve ever heard before, it’s his standard schtick. He knows everything. He watches everything. I’m sure it’s one reason why the chimperor feels so secure with him around.
What was really infuriating about that interview was the idea that al rove’s contention were presented without much comment. Sure, I don’t expect the interview to grapple over every small point. But, take this interview for instance, they could have at least come on afterwards and said, “after looking through the polls, we did find results as were described by mr. rove” or, they could have just torn him up.
Whatever.
As to the point about NPR’s listenership not really buying into the conservative message, I think that’s dicey. Here in central PA, I guarantee that the majority of listeners are fairly conservative and most likely really enjoy the swing NPR has made since Tomlinson started exerting his influence over the public brodacasting. I don’t think it’s any kind of head fake NPR is throwing at people, I think they have genuinely taken a much more conservative/republican appraoch to the news in the last six years.
Just my take.
Mieke
October 26, 2006 at 1:26 pm
44Re: PBS. Had to add my two cents. Ice Weasel: Why would someone who wouldn’t donate to Fox or the Washington Times support NPR? As a frequent volunteer for my local station’s pledge drives, I don’t get the logic of withdrawing financial support from PBS and NPR just as they are being infiltrated by the right (Tucker Carlson’s dad, amongst others). Have you thought that through? I understand the issue. But the people who work in public broadcasting are by and large on your side, and don’t like it any more than you do. The fact remains that NPR and PBS still represent the last arenas that are not controlled by corporate America and advertising (though their huge budget cuts by the Republicans have forced more sponsorship). The Republicans would LOVE to see it either completely destroyed, or infiltrated by them (much like their stance on the UN…hence, John Bolton wanting to dismantle it, yet becoming ambassador. Should we stop supporting the UN? But I digress). If NPR and PBS go bust, we will have a very hard time restoring impartiality to its subject matter, because it won’t exist at all. And it is still one of the most unbiased sources out there. So DONATE!!! Don’t turn on them because they have become victims of this administration. Support them more while their federal funding is pulled so that when the time is right, they can work from within to get back on track. I wrote a blog entry (PBSing) some time ago on this topic, excerpted below, because I don’t think people know how truly in jeopardy these media sources are. http://litura.com/2006/01/26/pbsing.aspx
“The republican controlled Congress has already voted to drastically cut, and has threatened to get rid of the whole public broadcasting program altogether. Are you aware that “the subcommittee acted to eliminate within two years all federal money for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting — which passes federal funds to public broadcasters — starting with a 25 percent reduction in CPB’s budget for next year”? Yes, that’s ALL federal money.”
Bye-bye Big Birdy.
Siobhan
October 26, 2006 at 3:00 pm
45More to the point, don’t forget that a lot of your donation supports your local station and their productions - your money is not just going to NPR. I dunno, maybe your local station doesn’t produce much original programming, so maybe it’s less of an issue, but my local station (KQED) produces some pretty good shows.
Also, NPR is more than Morning Edition and All Things Considered. I haven’t noticed a lot of rightwing taint on Fresh Air, for example. It may also be a matter of interviewing skill - Terry Gross is better at the art of the follow-on question than just about anyone. And when she lobs a softball at someone, it often seems that she’s actually just giving them enough rope to hang themself.
It's Pat!
October 26, 2006 at 3:06 pm
46Meike, I have been donating for 23 some years to both radio and TV, and I’ll continue, for the same reasons you give. I think their (NPR)success in reaching a larger audience has caused them to attempt to also reach a broader audience. Hence, they gleefully jump in bed with corporate donators, and my pal Karl gets to act like a dick and get away with it.
My preference (or should say fantasy) would be NPR to operate without any government or corporate funding. But then they would be located in Ely Minnesota and only the moose could hear ‘em.
KRove56
October 26, 2006 at 4:22 pm
47When I said “THE” Math, I was referring to The “Diebold” Math. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! The fix is in; watch for it at a polling station near you on election day. HAHAHAHA!!! Whew, I gotta quite laughing so hard.
Mieke
October 26, 2006 at 6:44 pm
48Re: Diebold (and ES&S). No doubt. Just heard on NPR a pollster saying that the Democrats at this point, lead the Republicans by 38% in taking back the house. That is quite a large margin. So if the Republicans succeed in holding their seats, I’d be extremely suspicious. Extremely. Ukranian election suspicious. Just about as suspicious as I am about exit polls showing a John Kerry win, and then Bush winning. As suspicious as I am of a company (Diebold) whose CEO (who recently resigned amid fraud charges) actually put on paper that he was “dedicated to delivering the state of Ohio to President Bush” http://www.moxiegrrrl.com/2005/12/diebold-ceo-resigns-amid-woes.html
The fix is in, I’m afraid, until the system is fixed. Call me a crackpot kool-aid drinker, I stand by my conclusions.
BTW. Siobhan, my local station is KQED as well, but most of the programs, as you mentioned, are NPR produced and nationally broadcast on their member stations. As the purveyor of this website is well aware, ahem ahem.
piglet
October 26, 2006 at 7:08 pm
49Sorry, Mo, I guess we’ve given up on solving your problem.
Here’s a last attempt: bring an enormous hat. Put it on when they start talking, and when they complain, tell them you will leave it off as long as they can keep quiet. Of course, this only works if you have seats directly in front of the offenders.
But it might be more practical than smuggling zoo animals.
Siobhan
October 26, 2006 at 7:23 pm
50Mieke, True, most of it is the national feed. But we sure have a lot of good local stuff, starting with Forum, but also including the City Arts and Lectures and all of those other interesting 8pm shows, Pacific Time (hope it stays good now that Duc has moved on), plus a pretty good news dept. I don’t have a TV, so don’t know how that side is for local stuff. There’s always room for improvement, but overall pretty good.
cooper
October 26, 2006 at 7:57 pm
51Mo, you’ve noticed how quickly the subject of the post goes over the High Wall in the first turn (NASCAR jargon) with this group, right? piglet, I like the idea of the hat.
ice weasel
October 26, 2006 at 8:30 pm
52Come on. Support NPR because it’s the least evil? Now there’s a rousing testimonial.
And sorry, I don’t mean to be so harsh. But it upsets me. As someone who has supported NPR for more than 20 years, about three years ago I gave up. Sure, NPR was still better than the alternatives but the path they were following was clear. I miss NPR. I miss badly.
And, NPR is hardly the last bastion free from the corporate yoke. Hardly. Do the three letters ADM mean anything? NPR and PBS have slid ever closer to what seems to me to be just a more tasteful, restrained commercial broadcasting model. The commercials just come at the beginning and the end of each show, not in the middle.
Look, there’s no doubt that NPR has managed to keep its’ nose out of the swill but that’s about it, otherwise they’re just as submerged in the slime as any other network. Mieke, I supported KQED and KALW for years, and before them, there was KPBS and KCRW (WITF, where I live now, is an excellent model of the “commercial” NPR station, bland, redundant music during the week and the NPR hit parade on the weekend).
But no, I can’t support that. And know this, the moment I see the trend reverse, I’m there again. But if in the meantime NPR goes buns up (though that’s hardly likely despite what is uttered during pledge drives), then it got what it deserved and the people now supporting NPR can focus their efforts and money on creating something better to replace it. There’s a vacuum out there and NPR is partially responsible for it. If in NPR going away it is the catalyst for something better coming to be, then I’ll celebrate it.
I’ve already mourned the loss.
David
October 26, 2006 at 9:05 pm
53I see both Mieke/Siobhan’s and ice weasel’s points. I go back to the inception of NPR, having voted in my first election (when you had to be 21) for LBJ, which meant Bill Moyers would be shaping this new part of American life. I still donate to two community radio stations, WNCW, which serves Western North Carolina and East Tennessee, along with parts of upstate South Carolina, and WMNF, which serves West Central Florida. And I listen to Fresh Air and other NPR programming on whatever station I can pick up which carries them.
I want to see public broadcasting survive, in part because if we retake congress, there will be a renaissance, although it will be much slower and more limited than if we also retake the White House in ‘08.
Like ice weasel, I have really mourned what has been lost. But like Mieke, I do not want NPR to die, even if there are clearly malignant tumors growing apace. If Republicans continue to be able to steal the elections (you’re damned right the fix continues to be on, and they’ve had two more years to become even better at it), NPR as we have any notion of it is terminal.
Generally I am skeptical of conspiracies, but we are awash in evidence of what happened starting in 2000, including systematic, sustained, massive voter disinfranchisement in Florida and Ohio as a central feature. Anybody who believes these people respect democracy or will give up power willingly seems to me to be enjoying some damned good mind-altering substances.
At least I made it down the back straightaway before going over the wall.
tess
October 27, 2006 at 12:20 am
54Oh, Mo, I so know your problem. My boyfriend and I have been living next to some noisy f*ckers blasting their stereo and having puke parties for the past year because the apartment managers have either been (a) too smart for the landlords and got fired within a month or (b) were too stupid and didn’t do anything whenever anyone complained. How hard can it be to turn down the bass on their stereo below “ear-splitting” or “wall-vibrating?” Apparently so hard that they’ve had to be threatened with eviction to learn what we’ve been complaining to them about every week for a year.
These, my friends, are the next generation of the “bridge and tunnel” crowd. And I’m very close to driling a hole and gassing them while they sleep.
ice weasel
October 27, 2006 at 3:29 am
55Take a moment and listen to Inskeep’s interview this morning with Howard Dean. Count the number of times he asked Dean, in various forms, if, in fact, the dems were really powerless and weak. Then contemplate the short piece before that which basically fluffed the RNC and republican candidates in general and how the dems were really behind despite all the noise being generated in the media (Thanks mara).
Sgt. Slivverberg
October 27, 2006 at 4:32 am
56Tess, I’d say frag the sumbitches, but schrapnel would prob’ly come through your wall and kill either ya or that cowboy friend o’ yours, so I’m out of ideas.
David
October 27, 2006 at 7:53 am
57Mara was the canary in the NPR coal mine, if memory serves. I missed this am’s daily conservitprop, but it certainly sounds like how one would set the stage for acceptance of a Republican “victory.” I assume the exit polls will once again be called flawed.
I guess the cliche that applies is the one about not throwing out the baby with the bath water, but if the baby is terminally wracked with some deadly contagion…? Keith Olbermann continues to do what front-page, above-the-fold NPR now lacks either the courage or permission to do, Bill Moyers now being persona non grata for daring to offer objective, intelligent political information and analysis.
Sharon
October 27, 2006 at 9:05 am
58Maybe they won’t even bother to do exit polls this year, since they’re so obviously “flawed.”
I’m astonished that Keith Olbermann is still on the air, and not in the air on his way to an undisclosed location in, say, Syria. Goddess protect him. He says what no one else, neither in print or in broadcast, dares to say, although the NYTimes editorials occasionally come close.
Jerry
October 27, 2006 at 10:31 am
59My friends (to paraphrase) “Civility is dead: to begin with. There is no doubt whatever about that. The register of its burial was signed by the clergyman, the clerk, the undertaker, and the chief mourner…
Civility is as dead as a door-nail.”
It began as a tiny cough, when it became PC to NOT hold a door for a woman with an armload of packages, even though I would do the same for a man. Progressed to a ghastly choking as elbows surplanted “Excuse me”’s at counters, and died a hideous death as cell-phones became more important than the people around you and concern for others on the road, as ’self’ replaced the last vestiges of ‘we’re all in this together,’ c. WWII.
We are descending into a miasma of indifference to others. One in which Narcissism is regarded as a virtue, at least by each individual. We live in a society (if you can call it that) increasingly antithetical to care for others, and blind to the idea that “If I am quiet through this concert, not only will I be kinder to others, but I will enjoy it more myself!”
I am a child of the 50’s, a child (again) of the late 60’s and early 70’s. I love people, and get joy from making them happy. I am out of sync, and out of place. I weep for the future children. I cry for my society, and what it could have become. And I miss Jimmy Carter, who ‘admitted’ to the nation that he had ‘lusted in (his) heart.’ and felt shame for it.
Mieke
October 27, 2006 at 11:41 am
60I still think NPR and PBS put out some of the less biased programming there is. And I can say that it would be a huge loss if it went belly-up, as the Republicans would like. I mean, think about WHY they want it to be destroyed so badly. It’s because it still is fairly balanced. I think, Ice Weasel, that you are lumping “them” at NPR all together, as if the entire staff has suddenly turned into Republicans, when I am pretty sure most of them are not very happy that conservatives with a political agenda have infiltrated at the top levels. Once the country swing back to the left, this will be fixed. But it cannot be fixed if the entire system is destroyed. I think the point about throwing the baby out with the bathwater is an accurate assessment. I don’t believe the baby itself is sick, however.
I didn’t hear the Inskeep interview, but I don’t think asking Howard Dean about powerlessness and weakness in the democratic party constitutes bias. That seems to simply address the current situation, in which the dems ARE powerless, because the Republicans have taken control of every branch of government and therefore control every issue facing the country.
NPR has turned to corporate sponsorship more and more because, despite your skepticism, they are, in fact, facing a budget crisis. As I pointed out in an earlier post, their federal money has been cut 25% and the current Congress has put forth more than one bill to completely eliminate funding for public broadcasting in the next two years. But with the withdrawal of your support (and others of the same opinion), they probably won’t have to wait that long, since listener support is still crucial.
murray
October 27, 2006 at 11:44 am
61This is what I get for visiting the grandkids and coming late to the game. I was going to suggest a hip-flask with sangria and a couple of roofies to offer to the drunkards, security could clean them up afterwards, but I was beaten to the punch.
Jerry, I think that the problem is even deeper. America in its thinking and culture has always lauded the maverick, the loner who defies society. When was the last movie where cooperation and community saves the day and gets the girl? (Or the first?)
Other countries see socialism where all work for the good of all, as a good thing. We view socialism as a dirty word. We have always believed in the individual above all else. So we get, “Look out for number 1, and screw the rest.”
And so we get louts at concerts who feel entitled to destroy it for all around them, and politicians who come to feed at the trough while their constituants struggle. Deep down American society doesn’t have a problem with this, and it’s unlikely that it ever will.
(sorry about any typos, I can’t for the life of me find Word on my daughter’s computer to run it through spell-check).
Karen
October 27, 2006 at 11:55 am
62Jerry, I’m a committed feminist from way back and a contemporary of yours, and when my arms are full I’m very grateful to anyone who holds the door for me. Feminists don’t like being “little-lady” patronized, but we never campaigned for the end of civility!
ice weasel
October 27, 2006 at 12:42 pm
63Mieke, you’ve posted some careful and well thought out feelings. I think they deserved to be treated in a similar manner. Though it is against my nature, please allow me to do so.
Mieke wrote, I still think NPR and PBS put out some of the less biased programming there is.
I agree. And that’s exacty my point. I’m not looking for ideological purity here, just something better than less biased than fox. Which is a pretty low standard I would also point out.
Mieke wrote, I think, Ice Weasel, that you are lumping “them” at NPR all together, as if the entire staff has suddenly turned into Republicans
This isn’t about the staff, per se. It’s about the material. So maybe my railing against Inskeep isn’t fair. Maybe it’s the writers and editors and the producers who should have their ears burning when I write. Fair enough. However, all that nice staff aside, the message is what it is. And I blame the organization, as a whole, for that message.
Mieke wrote, I don’t believe the baby itself is sick, however.
Babies and bathwater aside, I disagree. The “baby”, in this case NPR, is not what it used to be by any reasonable measure. That’s my opinion.
Mieke wrote, I didn’t hear the Inskeep interview, but I don’t think asking Howard Dean about powerlessness and weakness in the democratic party constitutes bias. That seems to simply address the current situation, in which the dems ARE powerless, because the Republicans have taken control of every branch of government and therefore control every issue facing the country.
Perhaps if you had heard it, you might feel differently. I suspect not but it’s not really fair to put words in your mouth. However, I will disagree with your point because it misses mine completely. The discussion wasn’t about why the dems cannot enact their agenda. No one, myself included, would argue that they are out of power in all branches of government. The issue was about the upcoming election. And it’s the major RNC media talking point right now to say that the rethugs will stand strong and hold all their offices when all of the polling indicates a major shift in this country.
Mieke, it’s the same disinformation tactic put forth when the chimperor says “only a few Americans, a small percentage of them, do not support what he is doing in Iraq.” That’s patently false. And to report it, or to let it stand is to give credibility to that falsehood.
So Inskeep taking the tact that he did, is projecting bias.
Mieke wrote, NPR has turned to corporate sponsorship more and more because, despite your skepticism, they are, in fact, facing a budget crisis.
I disagree. What NPR and it’s affiliates are facing, in my experience, is not being able to live the lifestyle they wish to.
For instance, the local station here, WITF, is trying to raise more money here for a new broadcast center. A new broadcast center? How about actually creating some local programming before you buld the palace to broadcast it from? Why do they need a new broadcast center when all they do is play classical music and syndicated shows?
This makes no sense and frankly, I’ve seen similar things in other markets I’m familiar with.
You know, if, in fact, WITF was putting out good local programming and doing so from some obselete facility, I’d be right there to support them. I don’t think they deserve to work in bad conditions. But that’s not what this is about. This is about building an image and having a spiffy new building from which to project that image all the while, not much really comes out of that new broadcaster center but the same satellite feeds which, I would hasten to point out, could come out of my 12×12 home office.
So no, I’m sorry. I don’t buy the budget crisis.
Mieke wrote, But with the withdrawal of your support (and others of the same opinion), they probably won’t have to wait that long, since listener support is still crucial.
Maybe so. And my point was, that once NPR is gone, all the money that has been propping them up will be directed in other areas. I don’t feel the need to support Steve Inskeep, Cokie Roberts, Mara Liasson and a host of other news readers and self-appointed pundits who have only proven their fealty to the same government who wants to defund them. If they’re that stupid, then I think they deserve to be bankrupt.
But the truth is, as long as they keep toeing the line and parroting the right talking points, the republicans in charge will see to it that they have just enough funding to keep going.
Lucky us.
Look I love, truly love, many things on NPR. But the other side is, if the model isn’t working, and it cannot be fixed, then we should discard it. And if tomorrow, NPR went dark, what would happen? Would everyone there just quit what they did and go do something else? Why wouldn’t, for instance, Ira Glass take his excellent show and sell it on iTunes? I’d pay a buck for This American Life. And I could same thing for half a dozen shows on the national network. The major portion of my listening to NPR is on podcasts, primarily because the local station can’t or won’t run the shows. So every day I listen to Michael Krasny’s forum, and Sandra Tsing Loh’s Loh Down on Science and the Commonwealth Club, just to name a few. I believe these shows could survive independent of a national network NPR and I think that once things settled down, they might better without NPR.
Maybe I’m wrong. Again, it’s all just my opinion.
I spent most of my adult life in the music business. When I left in 1999 I had a lot of harsh things to say. Some of those things even my friends in the biz just shook their heads. In the last seven years I’ve been proven right on every one of them.
Look, I’m not saying I’m perfect or I’m bloody nostradamus. I’m not. But humans resist change. It’s our nature even when change would benefit us. I think that this change, killing off NPR, would be one that would, eventually, benefit many of us. I think whatever replaced it, and something would, would better, more current and more robust. It’s clear there are problems with the current model of NPR. Can they be changed or fixed? We can argue that all night long. But the thing I think that is beyond argument is that a change is indicated.
Thanks for your consideration.
ice weasel
October 27, 2006 at 1:24 pm
64My apologies for the disjointed syntax above. Every year I wear out a keyboard and this one is 15 months old.
I know, I know, go buy a bloody keyboard and quite whining.
Sharon
October 27, 2006 at 3:10 pm
65When was the last movie where cooperation and community saves the day and gets the girl? (Or the first?)
“It’s A Wonderful Life”–not quite the first, but close.
The last one hasn’t been filmed yet..I hope.
Heather
October 27, 2006 at 3:27 pm
66I don’t think civilty is dead. As an almost Thirty year old female, I routinely hold doors open for those who either have their hands full or those whom are coming towards the door when I come to it first. Though the only people who tend not to at least mumble “Thank You” are those my age or younger.
Katie
October 27, 2006 at 8:37 pm
67Mo -
I have one word for you -
TAZER
Somewhere along the line, people have become Rude Rat Bastards. (No offense, Fanny)
I have been performing for 20 years, and audiences have changed. I remember holding my breath sitting in an audience, because I had a tickle in my throat. My eyes would water, and my lungs would collapse in on themselves, but damn it, I waited until applause, or at least a really loud part to quietly clear my throat.
I have almost gone off the stage straight for some rude idiot’s throat as they are yammering away in what was SUPPOSED to be a moment of emotionally charged silence.
I remember a performance at Orchestra Hall in Minneapolis several years back. There was an incredible ammount of coughing and murmuring. The conductor stopped about 30 seconds into the piece, turned around and said, “Everybody cough NOW so that we can enjoy the music in silence. He got a standing O from all of us greatful patrons.
katie
Flippy
October 27, 2006 at 8:53 pm
68We had the same problem with some yahoos (lower case “y”, the others would’ve been in the front row) at a Sarah McLachlan concert. We mostly grumbled to ourselves and then came back home and complained about it on our message board. I wish we’d had a cone of silence to drop on them, or a death ray. I hate rude people.
Hey, maybe Rosie O’Donnell will take you with her to the next Barbra concert she’s going to - she’s not non-confrontational, she loves Barbra, and she’d make the Rhode Island lesbians feel ashamed.
Regarding doors ‘n such - polite people hold doors open for anyone, regardless of age or sex. Other polite people thank them for their efforts. It’s sad that both are getting more rare, but it won’t stop me from door holding & people thanking.
hedera
October 27, 2006 at 9:10 pm
69I agree with Heather, civility is not dead. In the last year I’ve quit using it, but for 4 years before my second knee replacement I walked with a cane. Mind you, I walked well with a cane, and as fast as someone with osteoarthritis of the knee can be expected to do (I weight train regularly); but the cane was there.
When I rode BART, people offered me seats. When I came up to the door of the building where I work, with the cane in one hand and my rolling laptop case occupying the other, people held the door for me. (I could manage it alone, and did when necessary; but I smiled and thanked them.) People offered to carry my laptop case for me. People are, in general, quite civil. They are especially civil if one smiles and says, “Thank you” to them.
This doesn’t mean we don’t have a bumper crop of flaming assholes around; we do. 90% of the noise is made by 10% of the population. The decline of civility, I regret to say, was also hastened by early members of the radical feminist persuasion, who regarded the standard courtesy of a held door as an insult to their self-sufficiency; and after being snarled at for holding doors, not surprisingly, some men quit doing so. In fact when I began using a cane, I was encouraged and touched by the amount of help I was offered.
The oversized hat wouldn’t have helped Mo - he was behind them. Actually, from the description, nothing could have helped Mo. He had the misfortune to sit behind a collection of rowdy drunks; another reason why I rarely go to concerts either, except of classical music. If I want to listen to Barbara Streisand, I buy a CD. By the way, she didn’t respond because she’s used to ignoring drunken idiots in the front rows; every major performer is.
Buzz Aldrin, John Adams, Elizabeth Bennett, Eve, and the Detroit Tigers
October 27, 2006 at 11:52 pm
70First is the worst, second is the best!
(I.e “Go Number Two!”…but not in that sense.)
Shoeless Joe
October 28, 2006 at 5:08 am
71Sorry, Buzz, John, Liz, Eve, dee, siobhan, et al. Been there - done worse. Wait ’til next year!
David
October 28, 2006 at 5:58 am
72Hendersonville NC and Orlando FL offer a startling contrast in civility, but it reflects the difference between a fairly stable town and a rapidly growing city. Clermont FL is essentially like Hendersonville on the civility scale, but Orlando is is changing that. I do find hedera’s comment to be applicable to Orlando, which as a friend said, is a truly unhappy place. It does have a bumper crop of flaming assholes.
Said assholes are succeeding in making life in the public sphere something of a nightmare for everyone. Civility isn’t dead, but its counterpoint is becoming more and more brazen as narcissism, the glorification of jerkhood for both men and women, and “Me and mine” gain a stronger foothold in our society. And it doesn’t help that our society is becoming more and more defined by our gwot, with its utterly indefensible Bush-proclaimed center, the raging war crime known as the Iraq War.
Official America is a very ugly entity at the moment, which serves only to empower the flaming assholes. I don’t know that their numbers as a percentage of the population have changed, but their impact most certainly has in my 64 years. The only other period that disgusted me as much, based on the experiences of an adolescent with some awareness of its impact, was the McCarthy era, an absolutely inexcusable companion to the even more inexcusable violent attempts at maintaining southern apartheid.
David
October 28, 2006 at 6:19 am
73I forgot to say that I think we are seeing pushback from the civilized among us that might be a reason for optimism on several fronts, most notably from young people I am around. Contempt for much of what I see - yes. Despair - no (except on the global warming and US escalation of the nuclear arms race - yes).
I wind up looking to the generation now coming into adulthood, because my generation, for all that we attempted in our opposition to the criminal enterprise known as the Viet Nam War and our efforts on behalf of global ecosystems and human rights, have ultimately failed our posterity. This applies in spades to the most important single force on earth, American voters. It is what has happened at our ballot boxes that has helped ensure the world would wind up with the nightmares it now faces. I say this because no other nation, at least in my lifetime, has been in such a position to lead the world in a better direction and failed so miserably.
And now we are being stripped by the Bush administration of even having that potential. Oh, yes, I am both embarrassed and appalled by what the leader of the free world has actually done, and mostly in the name of doing good. But I also suspect a larger percentage of young people are aware of politcal realities than was the case when I was young. Older people, no. My greatest fear is that we have inflicted irreversible fuckups on our posterity. Doesn’t mean I’ll give up. Just means I am viscerally pissed.
ice weasel
October 28, 2006 at 6:34 am
74Back to topic at hand…
Heinlein once wrote (paraphrased) that protocol was the oil that kept the machine of human interaction running smoothly. Disregarding those traditions, at best, threw sand into a machine that didn’t really work all that well to being with.
I think, in many ways, a lot of the “chivalry is dead” and similar comments, while accurate, are looking at it from the wrong side. I don’t know that there was ever a time when everyone was polite and respectful. So the question becomes, was there a time or place when people were more considerate and why?
I think there was but in part, it was the product of the technology and social conditioning of the time. Let’s go back 30 years. No cell phone. No PDAs. Only doctors wore pagers. All of a sudden, a bunch of our big reasons for not enjoying the company of other humans suddenly disappear. See, all technology is a pretty sharp double edge sword. Being able to check your email anywhere (or text messages) mean you can and will do that.
I think the second part, I think, goes back about 25 years to the first stirrings of the “anti-PC” (and that PC would political correct, not personal computer) movement. Very quickly it became fashionable to demonstrate your patriotism and independent thinking ability by being an arrogant, insensitive, asshole. While I do think there are some very small, very specific and very minor positive things about the PC backlash in general, it was just an excuse to be an atavist.
Thirdly, and this ties in closely with number one and a little bit with number two, the changes that have been brought about by technology. The term “multi-tasking” having been spawning also in the reagan years (oh what a delightful American time that was) has brought us forward to a time when you, if you can’t check your phone, email, text messages and seach the web, you’re losing out. You’re missing the boat. All these producitivy tools that were supposed to free us from being chained to various appliances now only mean those appliances have transmogified into electronic leashes we wear twnety-four hours a day. That’s progress!
Finally, and perhaps, most importantly, as other have mentioned here, and I think ties in a bit with number one but really stands on its’ own as well, hey, some people are assholes. They always have been inconsiderate shits and always will be, in any venue. Sucks but it’s true. And I think the rampant narcissism that has been encouraged, as a virtue, in our society, has only fanned that flame. Now assholes are empowered.
Harold
October 28, 2006 at 7:09 am
75Hedera, as I read your comment I was processing it linearly instead of holistically. So what I read was: “I agree with Heather, civility is not dead. In the last year I’ve quit using it, but…”
Flippy, if you’re going to drop a death ray on rude people, make sure it’s a 1950’s-vintage porcelain-on-steel vacuum-tube model. (Try to get one with a conical muzzle with at least three magnetic collimating rings.) Today’s solid state plastic death rays lack sufficient mass to do much damage when dropped on people.
Jerry
October 28, 2006 at 11:33 am
76Great discussion!
Hedera, thanks, and you are right. It only takes a little food color to stain a whole glass of water, and I was looking at the glass half-empty.
Katie, thank you, too.
Tazer! Yes!!!
SpottedDog
October 28, 2006 at 1:28 pm
77Big event in my little town of Coeur d’Alene, Idaho next week. One of the most powerful men in the world, Dick Cheney, is stopping by. I was considering attending one of his events (and conversing with my neighbor during his speech!), but the local shop is already sold out of bright orange hunting vests, and I just feel it would be too dangerous to attend without one, so I’ll be hiding out in a small duck blind I’m constructing in my yard instead. Wish me well.
hedera
October 28, 2006 at 2:02 pm
78Harold, so much for carefully constructed periods! It never occurred to me that my comment could be read like that!
cooper
October 28, 2006 at 2:44 pm
79SpottedDog, back in the old days, when life was simpler (oh, I’d say about 1971) I was unencumbered one day and thought I’d go down to see Spiro (pre nolo condere) Agnew arrive at the airport in Great Falls, MT. He had a few nervous looking Secret Service men with him as he plunged into the cheering crowd, there to catch a glimpse of him before his speech later that day in a downtown auditorium (open to the public, BTW). I took a picture of him (I was still in my photojournalism jag at that time) from about 2 feet away - my closest brush with greatness until I met Adam not long ago in PA. What I really wanted to do was to “fram the hell of him” with my camera, but an unusually sagacious inner voice told my not to. I would, no doubt, still be in prison…
cooper
October 28, 2006 at 2:54 pm
80Mo! I’ve got it! You could have frammed the hell out of the drunk women with your camera - oh, wait - cameras these days don’t have 3 pounds of steel and glass attached to the front of them anymore. Sorry, bad idea; forget it.
Harold
October 28, 2006 at 3:50 pm
81They don’t build cameras or death rays like they used to.
Harold
October 28, 2006 at 3:57 pm
82Say, there’s something: you could’ve held up a cigarette lighter during the encore and “accidentally” set these drunken louts on fire. As they would be near the front of the auditorium and most of the exits would be near the sides or rear, collateral damage would most likely be light and acceptable.
I was at an R.E.M. concert about eight years ago where I think someone should have been selling T-shirts that said “I talked to my friends on my cell phone during an R.E.M. concert!” ‘Cause I think that’s the only reason a lot of people were there.
David
October 28, 2006 at 5:35 pm
83Luckily, my concert-going days were long enough ago that hearing the music was apparently still the reason for going to the concert. Lone exception was an afternoon open-air concert which included Joan Baez and an audience member who was so utterly stoned that he had no idea where he was and kept yelling “Fire it up.” His girlfriend finally eased him away. Mo, I still hold that it would have been justifiable homicide, especially if you had a jury of your music-loving peers.
Off topic for anyone who thinks the Democrats haven’t put forward a plan for leaving Iraq: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15430.htm
Jill
October 28, 2006 at 6:27 pm
84I think you handled yourself well - what else could you have done - except maybe scream - “there’s Danny Bonaduce - with a keg” and watched them hobble and run…
Sheridan
October 28, 2006 at 10:28 pm
85I very strongly dislike people like that. When I was ten, living in rural Georgia, and my brother and I were taken to see “Superman” in 1978, there was a spiritedly drunk young redneck seated behind us who talked through the picture. He effectively ruined the movie for all. My father turned around and told him to STFU. People clapped and cheered. The guy behind us, however, called him a nigger, and then all of us stepped outside. My father was ready to put this individual’s mandible in the back of his skull at that point. It took the police to settle things down. The man continued shouting racial epithets up the block at us all as he staggered away. My childhood memory of first seeing Christopher Reeve fly: stained forever by a racist I’ll never see again.
Why people feel the need to make hideous noise at public events is a thing I have never understood. I wonder why these women even went to see Barbra. It sounds as if this were their first concert. But sadly for concert-going humanity… I doubt it was.
Good for you, Mo, standing up to them. We’re all sorry you had to have the Streisand concert wrecked by this. But it’s a plague that bedevils us all. A pox on those women’s houses; and consider, briefly, how the main culprit probably got her foot broken. (A different angry patron?) Visualize yourself doing the breaking, kiddo.
cooper
October 29, 2006 at 6:01 am
86Sheridan, wise words - especially the final sentence. A good imagination and sense of humor certainly helps with some of life’s indignities. Unfortunately, sometimes they don’t kick in until after the crisis; kind of like thinking up a great put-down to an asshole, but maybe an hour too late.
Forgive my curiosity, but if your real name is Sheridan, didn’t being named after a famous Union general cause you problems growing up in rural Georgia? Oh yeah, rural Georgia - never mind.
Sgt. Slivverberg
October 29, 2006 at 7:03 am
87Mr Rocca, sir. I say we frag the bitches when they get into a cab after the show.
Evan
October 29, 2006 at 9:42 am
88It began as a tiny cough, when it became PC to NOT hold a door for a woman with an armload of packages, even though I would do the same for a man.
I don’t believe this ever happened. I’ve lived my whole life in San Francisco and Santa Cruz, lefty capitals of the world, have been holding doors open for people the whole time, and no one has ever, even once, said anything but “thank you”. People getting accosted by the PC police for being polite is a myth–and a pretty transparent one at that, considering that what is derisively termed “political correctness” by the ‘wingers is literally just another word for politeness.
Alas, however, the cell-phones at concerts thing is not a myth, and I’ll never understand it if I live to be a thousand. A few weeks ago I went to see Roger Waters, sitting in the lawn area at the Shoreline Amphitheatre, and all through the first half of the concert the guy standing behind me had a phone out. “HI! YEAH, I’M AT THE CONCERT! IT’S AWESOME! YEAH, THE SOUND IS GREAT! WHOA, LISTEN–WHAT’S THIS SONG CALLED?” (it was “Shine On You Crazy Diamond”) “RIGHT, ‘DIAMONDS IN THE SKY’, DUDE, I LOVE THIS SONG, MAN!” And then he’d hang up for a while and shoot the shit with his buddies, and then make another call.
Honestly, it’s not the rudeness that boggles my mind, so much as the fact that he paid forty bucks for a ticket to listen to music and then he didn’t listen to the music. Why would anyone pay that much for something he didn’t actually want? It seems to violate basic economic principles.
My other rock concert pet peeve (and this one goes way, way back, long before cell phones were a problem) is: Why is it that even though everyone’s sitting in their seats before the show and they know they can see the stage just fine, as soon as the house lights go down and the band comes onstage, the whole damn audience has to stand up? I’ve been at concerts where people stood up on their chairs, thus forcing the people behind them to either look at their butts for the whole show or else stand on their own chairs, and so on all the way to the back row. First time I saw this behavior was about 1985, and I gather it had been going on long before that–so when people tell me that concert rudeness is a side-effect of cell phones, I know better.
ice weasel
October 29, 2006 at 12:14 pm
89The intersection of chivalry and self-defense…
The scariest concert experience I ever had, working a Garth Brooks show in Fresno. As soon the lights went out and Brooks took the stage thousands of people stampeded stage. The scary part of it, those thousands were mainly women, a good portion of them my grandmother’s age. Many of them clutching little stuffed animals to throw on the stage (Brooks wife just gave birth to their first child). I’ve traveled with a few dozen bands and worked hundreds of shows but this one, well, you can’t fight back when you’re being run down by women, young and old.
So I did the chivalrous thing and retreated.
It was easily one of the most out of control shows crowd I’ve ever seen.
Which brings up about a dozen other stories, which I won’t bore you with here.
SpottedDog
October 29, 2006 at 2:34 pm
90Evan- At least twice I have held the door for someone and been treated poorly as a result. Once I received a long glare and another time the door was firmly pulled from my grasp and forcefully swung open even wider almost hitting me. That time I hadn’t even realized the person behind me was female until she grabbed the door. Ever since I carefully look at whomever I am about to hold the door for and make a quick judgement, is it safe to be courteous to this person…
It’s a dangerous world I tell yaR