As Atrios pointed out yesterday, PBS’ Gwen Ifill appeared on the show I haunt, “Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me,” and commented on the 2004 Vice Presidential Debate with some audible annoyance:
And you know the funny thing? I didn’t even ask about Mary Cheney. They obviously, the candidate, the Democratic Candidate, Senator Edwards, just felt the need to bring it up apropos of nothing and then claim later that he was just trying to express his sympathy and solidarity with the vice president’s daughter.
This is somewhat at odds with the transcript of the actual debate, which shows Senator Edwards’ comments to be in response to this question:
IFILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.
I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: “Freedom means freedom for everybody.” You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family’s experience as a context for your remarks. Can you describe then your administration’s support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?
To which Atrios then adds: “Over to you, Adam.” My first, honest reaction to this is a manly, “Don’t ask me! Ask MO! He writes for this site now, and he was there! Oh, why do you hound me!?” [Adam puts the back of his hand to his forehead and stumbles blindly from the room.]
But after returning to the room, it turns out that I do have a few things to say about this.
First, I can’t fault “Wait Wait” for not calling Ms. Ifill on this one. We’re a satirical newsquiz, and our celebrity guest segment is pointedly about asking people about obscure things, like mosquitos through history or the Indonesian tabloids or imagiro.* If you want to come on and spin at us during your brief interview segment, we’re not going to confront you about it, or even notice, probably. We have a list of stupid questions to get to. This probably makes it easier to understand, for instance, our August, 2003 episode, when Ken Mehlman claimed to be a “beautiful ballerina who is the toast of Moscow.” It was a little uncomfortable, maybe, but we didn’t call him on it.
Beyond that, I’m no more qualified to talk about the matter than anybody else. But I’m going to talk anyway. Because I do have a theory about why Ms. Ifill said what she said. And it’s not the Universal Lying Media Theory, which explains a lot of unrelated phenomena but has never been conclusively proven (or at least if it has I’ve never read anything about it in the papers). No, my theory is that Ms. Ifill believed exactly what she was saying. Because it was the Story, and stories are powerful.
Let me illustrate - do you remember the 2004 debates, when both John Edwards and John Kerry talked about Mary Cheney’s sexuality, causing a gigantic brouhaha, with conservatives crying foul and liberals scoffing at their hypocrisy? Take a second - do you remember it?
If you remember that, you remember it wrong. In fact, the incident at the Vice Presidential debate caused very little uproar. It was actually one of the only moments of anything approaching warmth or humanity between the candidates; Cheney made a noncommittal “loyal lieutenant” type of remark, and Edwards delicately reminded everyone that Cheney has a personal stake in the issue without forcing a response. Cheney thanked Edwards. They switched topics. It was civil. There was no substantial uproar until the next Kerry/Bush debate. If anything, most analysts were impressed with how cordial the exchange was.
It’s true. It’s fair to say that Cheney was not angered by this and it’s fair to say that the press didn’t make a giant deal about it. And it’s fair to say that Edwards was never called to the carpet for muffing the chance to dive in and rub Cheney’s nose in Bush’s fuzzy policies towards lesbians like Mary Cheney. Well, maybe that last one isn’t exactly fair to say. But it sure was fun to say.
The point is that the Story has now become “Kerry and Edwards harping on the fact of Cheney’s gay daughter.” And it’s important, particularly to the press, especially to the Washington press, to collectively remember what the Story is. My guess is that Gwen Ifill isn’t remembering what the debate was actually like, she’s remembering her part in the Story of That Thing That Kerry And Edwards Did That Even A Lot Of Moderates Thought Was Over The Line.
The fact that this Story isn’t true, and that at the time Ifill, like most other Americans, considered Dick Cheney’s feelings about his gay daughter a question worth asking… well, that fact is gone. G’bye. We live in the world of the Story, not the world of the truth. Conservatives get that. Liberals are still trying to learn it.
Maybe I’m too credulous. But I believe that Ifill’s statement was a mistake rather than a conscious deception, a convenience of memory that can go right up there alongside common egregious misremembrances like “I voted for McGovern” and “I never liked disco” and -yes- “I was only following orders.” When the story changes, we tend put ourselves somewhere safe within it.
And if you believe that Ms. Ifill is trying to curry favor with conservatives, know that she’s got a long way to go (look here and here, for example). To them she’s still another liberal mouthpiece. Knowing several Washington reporters, I can tell you that the deep desire to agree upon the Story might be the strongest force at work there, right up there with “the need to believe that the sad-ass sandwiches at the buffet are safe to eat.” So if you need a rationale for why such a statement was made on a funny newsquiz, apropos of nothing, you probably don’t need to look much further than those sandwiches.
And besides, ask Mo! He was there! Take him, not me….
—————
*Literally “origami” backwards, imagiro is the ancient Japanese art of folding animals until they resemble bits of paper. Not surprisingly, it never gained widespread popularity.





80 comments
ginny
July 2, 2006 at 3:10 pm
1Ironically, I didn’t remember who exactly Gwen Ifill was until I saw the transcript and though “Ohhhhh yeah.That Gwen Ifill.”
Perhaps she was just trying to jog our collective memories with The Story, so we’d remember forever after? Yes, I’m almost sure of it.
P.S. Imagiro is not making me popular with my cat. He objects to the folding process.
Kilgore Trout
July 2, 2006 at 3:31 pm
2“Don’t ask me! Ask MO! He writes for this site now, and he was there! Oh, why do you hound me!?”
Why you? Why anybody?
Kilgore Trout
July 2, 2006 at 3:52 pm
3Re: Imagiro. My cats run when I get out the iron these days, ginny.
Say what you will about Ms. Ifill, the woman’s got some pipes.
Personally, my theory on media bias develops from who owns the media. It’s not wild haired, dope smoking, leftist academics in corduroy sport coats - it’s multinational corporations with axes to grind, agendas to pursue and money to make.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, yet another life threatening thunderstorm is rolling through. I’ll stop by later, if I’m still alive. NC used to lead the nation in fatal lightning strikes. It seems we’re slipping in that poll, as well.
cooper
July 2, 2006 at 4:00 pm
4Kilgore Trout lives in NC? Welcome to FanAp Mr. Trout. I’ve read all your books. And it’s true what Mr. Trout says about the lightning here. One of my cousins died that way, which, I guess makes your passing more memorable than dying in yet another car crash.
hedera
July 2, 2006 at 6:27 pm
5Since you all seem to be such experts on lightning strikes: my sister lives in Las Vegas, out toward the edge of the Bureau of Land Management turf, and when they built their house, they had lightning protection put in, yes? OK, in the 8 years they’ve been there the house has been hit in 3 different storms, and the last time, it fried the computer that manages the landscape irrigation. If that was MY house I’d sue the lightning rod installer. Am I over-reacting? Is this normal?
anon
July 2, 2006 at 6:44 pm
6I apologize but once I thought of myself being called to the carpet for the chance at muff and to have my nose rubbed in bush…
I’m sorry, what were you saying again?
But I don’t think Atrios was calling Peter Sagal and WWDTM on the carpet for muffing their chance to rub Gwen Ifill’s nose in bush, so much as noting that for Ifill to have her nose rubbed in bush, she would have to perform a radical cranio anal extraction on herself. At the least, when I heard the segment and transcribed it and sent the link to Atrios, those were my thoughts.
anon
July 2, 2006 at 6:52 pm
7Did I remember the VP debate? Yes, but only because Al Franken has been all over Mary Cheney’s ass for her faux outrage with Edwards that she buttresses with her recitation of the story.
Ifill may have honestly thought that the new story was the actual story, but if so, what sort of journalist is she?
cooper
July 2, 2006 at 7:19 pm
8I don’t know, hedera. It’s all in the fine print of the contract. But on the good side, their house has been hit by lightning 3 times and it’s still there. That, in itself, seems like the investment in lighting rods (not cheap) has paid off. Lightning rods don’t keep the house from being struck by lightning, they are there to usher the voltage to ground. Since the house hasn’t burned down, it sounds like they are doing the job quite well.
cooper
July 2, 2006 at 7:30 pm
9Everything I’ve heard from the mouth of Mary and Lynn Cheney tells me that they are no different in their political outlook or philosophy than Mr. Heart Attack Poised To Happen At Any Moment Now himself. Don’t cry for Mary Cheney; this family deserves each other.
Emmarie
July 2, 2006 at 8:53 pm
10On anon’s last point–
Indeed. Nobody remembers the past perfectly, but journalists should make an effort, particularly if the reputation of another person is involved.
Pinwiz
July 2, 2006 at 10:29 pm
11I didn’t even watch the debate, so I wouldn’t have been able to attest to Miss Thang’s statement. However, it makes me wonder. What if people in the audience knew the truth about what happened and spoke up about it? What would have been the response of the producers?
anonymousse
July 3, 2006 at 1:47 am
12Well, for what it’s worth, as long as we’re getting picky about the difference between how an event is described and the way the event actually unfolded, I heard the cited part of this weekend’s WWDTM twice (yes, I have too much time on my hands), and while Ms. Whozis did indeed comment on the debate as noted, I did not hear anything in her tone or manner that I would describe as ‘audible annoyance.’ Call me Mr. Hairsplitter, but there it is.
cooper
July 3, 2006 at 3:57 am
13Way off target, but a brief note about one of our pals:
For the regular gang - lurkers too, of course - I’ve been in contact with Pete IVDL and he is fine. We haven’t heard from him for a while because his internet company has gotten very busy. He’s re-doing the studio and buying equipment to keep up with the demand. Too much work to do is a good problem to have in the short term, yes Adam? Also in the last 6 weeks, in addition to the workload, he has had his car stolen (returned) and his beloved Labrador retreiver (a really cute guy) had a near brush with death, but is much better now. So his mind has been elsewhere, but he still thinks fondly of some of us and will be back when he can take a break from his grinding schedule. A fond “G’day” is sent to you all (or y’all, in my case).
Postmark
July 3, 2006 at 6:09 am
14Thanks for clarifying that. I, too, caught the annoyance in her voice when she mentioned that and wondered why. The annoyance was subtle, and after Stupid Americans Can’t Appreciate Football guy, I think most guests will need to turn up the volume on their agendas to ruffle feathers. Or just be named Gene Simmons.
Lindsey
July 3, 2006 at 6:16 am
15Nice try. What a lame piece of garbage that response is. If you left it at, “we’re not here to call people on their faulty memories,” that would be fine, but the rest is just crap.
John Murphy
July 3, 2006 at 6:27 am
16Can you go over the whole part about rubbing Bushes with Noses again?
Happy Birthday Adam (two days late) you are my Superhero
Mo Rocca
July 3, 2006 at 6:58 am
17I can only defend Gwen Ifill. Her rendition of Gershwin’s The Man I Love was a bravura performance and a first for “Wait Wait…” (If you remember, Senator Edwards sang this same song toward the end of that debate to emphasize his support of same-sex unions and John Kerry.)
Happy birthday, Adam! Gwen will be calling to sing to you any minute now.
SimoneDB
July 3, 2006 at 7:14 am
18Still, it would be nice if the Wait Wait folks corrected the oversight on the next show, perhaps playing Gwen’s response to you all alongside her question to the candidates? Or if maybe you asked “On the Media” to correct the record.
Zach
July 3, 2006 at 7:15 am
19But that’s a slight distortion of the history around this.
The Story came when John Kerry brought up Mary Cheney in his debate with George W. Bush. That the Edwards-Cheney exchange has been lumped into that exchange is unfortunate, but the latter occurrence is what started the controversey. It was Kerry using the issue when some deemed it inappropriate. Brouhaha ensues.
Ifill is still wrong, though, and does seem to be reshaping history to fit the bigger story that came later.
Was Kerry right to mention Cheney’s daughter after Edwards had in a different context? Should it be mentioned at all? Those are questions for history to debate.
Dale
July 3, 2006 at 7:22 am
20I sincerely hope history doesn’t lose a lot of sleep over this one. It has a few more pressing issues to sort through (should Star Jones have been fired?)
Samoza
July 3, 2006 at 7:23 am
21Wrong. Plenty of people were pissed by Edwards’ remark, the Cheneys for sure, but also (from my experience) some hardcore liberals who thought it was a cheap shot. Ifill is certainly wrong in her assertion of “apropos of nothing,” but let’s not pretend the civility with which the exchange was handled means that the Cheneys were okay with it.
Aris
July 3, 2006 at 7:30 am
22“And if you believe that Ms. Ifill is trying to curry favor with conservatives, know that she’s got a long way to go (look here and here, for example).”
I had to savor the irony of including the above statement within a post about “The Story,” since it is yet another instance of accepting a Story: As a typical liberal who’s typically disgusted with the incompetent way our MSM covers news, I don’t think Ifill is a closet conservative and I don’t go around analyzing her motivations. What upsets me is her incompetence at doing her job by accepting a Story over Reality.
You have also accepted a Story over Reality, by implying that what motivates inconsequential liberals like me, as well as prominent liberal bloggers like Atrios, is the suspicion that Ifill, or any other media personality, harbors conservative sensibilities. What we’re upset about is the fact that mainstream journalists are not doing their jobs properly because they suspend their critical faculties when it comes to conservative narratives. Why they do it is an interesting question, but not as important as the fact that they do it all the time.
Joel Patterson
July 3, 2006 at 7:34 am
23Adam, when you imply Gwen Ifill is not trying to curry favor with conservatives, it is irrelevant to cite evidence of conservative activists being angry with her. Newsbusters dislike of Ifill tells us nothing about what she is doing.
Now when Ifill cooks for and socializes with Condi Rice, that IS evidence that Ifill is trying to curry favor with a powerful member of government. And if Ifill skips an obvious question about Rice not reading a National Intelligence Estimate, that’s Ifill avoiding proper journalistic assertiveness.
Rug-munching jokes about Condi are funny, Adam Felber, but there’s no need for you to uphold false claims that Gwen Ifill is truthful or impartial.
John Murphy
July 3, 2006 at 7:40 am
24I just made my first monetary contribution to Fanatical Apathy.
Since Adam just had a Birthday I think we should all contribute something for the Greater Good.
Keep up the great work Adam!!!
How can I get a Fanatical Apathy T-shirt?
ethan
July 3, 2006 at 7:52 am
25wow, i thought your show just blew because it wasn’t funny.
now i’m informed it blows because you repeat these rightish zombie memes that never seem to die.
i’m convinced that the creator of your show is some npr executive’s nephew. or niece. or some shit.
it’s totally unlistenable. mostly because you all sound retarded.
Taylor
July 3, 2006 at 8:05 am
26Adam,
Read Aris @ 22.
Now read it again.
Now read it again.
If there is suspicion of bias, it is not idealogical. I’m sure most journalists consider themselves above politics and don’t think it affects them personally, so they are happy to debase political discussion by reducing everything to a horse race.
No the real suspicion is that journalists are whores who will not offend the perceived powers-that-be, the Sally Quinn cocktail circuit crowd.
Watch the video of Colbert at the White House correspondents’ dinner again. You know, the one that the press tried to ignore afterwards.
Maximum Bob
July 3, 2006 at 8:15 am
27Plenty of people were pissed by Edwards’ remark, the Cheneys for sure, but also (from my experience) some hardcore liberals who thought it was a cheap shot.
Well, your experience is what it is, but I’ve never met any hardcore liberals who were offended by Edwards’ remarks. I’ve always felt that this was a sterling example of manufactured outrage.
peter crowley
July 3, 2006 at 8:15 am
28Gwen Ifill has a professional obligation to see through The Story.
She fails to meet that obligation.
PBS should fire her if she cannot do her job.
DrBB
July 3, 2006 at 8:30 am
29What you’re saying is, the right wing echo machine created the “story” out of faux outrage (which then Cheney himself belatedly got on the bandwagon and decided to share) and the Me-dia helped them do it and then forgot what really happened so thoroughly that even THEY don’t remember the facts even when they were THERE.
Funny, that IS how I remember it.
Jim
July 3, 2006 at 8:37 am
30“this family deserves each other.”
Ain’t that the truth, the Cheneys are truly their own Karma.
My first time commenting here, and I also agree with Aris@22. It’s not a question of how Gwen Ifill thinks, feels or even votes. It’s about how she does her job as a journamalist. She’s probably not intentionally boosting the Rove agenda (though I think those intimes soirees at Condi’s do deserve more attention, just like Bill Safire’s dinners with “Don and Joyce” or George Will’s private West Wing lunches with Nancy Reagan deserve[d] more attention), more likely she’s lazy and subject to Beltway Groupthink. But lazy or partisan, the effect is the same. The fact that she had a choice between The Story and her own lyin’ eyes, and went with the Story, tells you all you need to know about her professionalism, and that of ninety per cent of her peers.
dee
July 3, 2006 at 9:00 am
31Oh my gracious I go away for a couple days in preparaton for (and eventually getting to) the beach and it gets all silly in here.
Happy belated birthday, Adam. I remembered it in mid June and thought it would be poor form to start celebrating then, but then I forgot about it entirely. I do that a lot these days.
I read the thing on Atrios when it was posted and couldn’t figure out why he was linking to you, either. Maybe he thought you could use the traffic. But we are a generally civil group around here (even to our pet conservative– hi, wf ), so I would suggest we all just kick back, have one of our favorite beverages and enjoy each other’s wit.
Did I mention I’m at the beach (for the next two weeks, cooper, and here you haven’t recovered from not going to France yet!)
Osborn Green
July 3, 2006 at 9:30 am
32Gwen Ifill? You mean Condi Rice’s Girlfriend?
I can’t imagine her being disengunuous.
ice weasel
July 3, 2006 at 10:09 am
33Mr. Felber, you are right in that it’s silly for us to expect a show like WWDTM to do what the reat of the media seem incapable of. WWDTM is a comedy show. Sure, it’s based on the news, but it’s still comedy. Like The Daily Show, it’s supposed to be funny first.
Now it sure would have been nice, maybe even funny, if everyone on the stage that day made loud vomiting noises when Ifill spread more manure. But I, for one, won’t or can’t be angry with you or the anyone on the show for it.
Where we part ways my friend is that I have seen in you a tendancy to look for the best in the media. That’s laudbale. Hell, optimism on a lot of issues these days sure would be a nice thing. But our media isn’t bent, it’s utterly broken. When The Daily Show’s accuracy is higher than that of entire networks, well, that sort of makes the point all on its’ own, eh?
NPR, at one time, was a haven of objective, high quality reporting. These days NPR is really just a slightly polite version of any other news organ. The smooth, soft spoken presentation remains the sadly, the information put forth isn’t much better than any of the networks.
And to respond to a couple of people here who seemed to think WWDTM isn’t funny, uh, ok. I think it’s one of the better things on radio on these days. It’s consistently intelligent and funny. That’s just my opinion.
Hey belated best of b/days by the way.
jawbone, aka Rabid Lamb with Venoumous Fangs
July 3, 2006 at 10:39 am
34Aris @ 7:30am (good work for early in the morning) summed up the problem Atrios was pointing to with Gwen Ifill’s appearance on Wait Wait–not that she is conservative, or lies, or imagines things–but that she has forgotten or ignored or changed the actual facts. For what reasons we may never know, unless she decides to tell us truthfullly what they are. All we can all we can get a handle on is that she did forget or ignore or change the actual facts.
What she said, however, does fit very nicely into the currently circulating RNC/WH/Mary Cheney “script.”
What Atrios and many people who are news junkies decry is that a “script” or “story” is more to the liking of so many journalists than a recounting of actual facts. It makes us bang our heads against our desks while reading what they write, yell at the TV/radio when they say these things, and, then, turn to the internet where Facts Rule, man.
And I do know Gwen Ifill’s sing-song mode of expressing amused disapproval or being cutely condescending. I have heard it many times on Washington Week, where she is more relaxed and casual.
It hurts so much to have journalists on NPR/PBS do what the rest of the MCMer’s do–I have always expected more from NPR and PBS.
We don’t want Ifill to be fired or pulled from her current jobs–we just dream of her and other journalists doing their jobs professionally.
That’s all. Is that too much to ask?
jawbone, aka Squeaking Rabid Lamb with Venomous Fangs
July 3, 2006 at 10:42 am
35oops–just noted posting time–and it is not EDT. Gives me a chance to edit spelling of joke tag.
Adam Felber
July 3, 2006 at 12:44 pm
36It’s nice to have so many Eschaton readers showing up. Lord, you guys are mouthier than last week’s Gawker readers. Okay, though, a couple of things:
1) Please keep it civil. It’s all I ask.
2) 99% of the posts on this blog arre supposed to be funny, though lord knows they do not always succeed. Bizarrely, it’s down here in the comments where the discussion can get serious. But up there… I think it might help provide a little context for you to know that it’s rarely a Face Value kind of deal.
3) If you think that I’m missing the “real point” of this story, please understand that that’s my job. I do it well.
4) Aris and Taylor (and, to an extent, Jawbone): Instead of asking me to read Aris’ post again (”and again”), and patiently explaining to me What All Liberals Believe, may I direct your attention to Joel’s post, the one directly beneath Aris’?
Also, feel free to check out the comments back at Atrios’ original post on the matter.
Or you could check out Peter’s comment which directly contradicts Jawbone’s assertion that “we” don’t want reporters to be fired.
See?
I’m more inclined to agree with Aris than Joel on this point (though Joel was definitely less patronizing
), but I don’t think it’s unfair for me to say that a LOT of people have the feelings I was referring to. For better or for worse, we liberals have lots of different opinions. And we don’t need to lecture each other on what we all think as though we somehow don’t comprehend what we are all saying.
Oui?
Beyond that, welcome to the site.
CMike
July 3, 2006 at 12:44 pm
37This post is nothing short of sad. To paraphrase the conclusion “journalists misinform news consumers all the time and it’s all quite innocent.” The idea that Glen Ifill does not know what went on in the debate she moderated is absurd.
For those who do not have collegial responsibilities, you might be interested in learning about the lack of journalistic professionalism that leads to these falsehoods being steadily injected into the national political debate. Scroll down to the bottom of this post and begin reading at the bold heading “Minute Rice.”
dAVE
July 3, 2006 at 1:21 pm
38Wow, a lot of commenters here miss the sarcasm in Adam’s post.
Anyway…
As I recall, the brouhaha took a couple of days to get started after the Kerry/Bush debate. Kerry pointed out that Bush said that he didn’t care where bin Laden was and didn’t think about him that much. Bush heh-heh-ed and said that he didn’t think he ever said that. The next day, the news media played the clips of Bush saying that he doesn’t care about bin Laden, against a clip of him from the debate denying he said it.
Then, magically, the entire thing shifted over to “Kerry said Cheney’s daughter is GAY!! Oh My God! That is WAAY over the line!”
And Bush denying that he said that he didn’t care about Osama went down the memory hole.
Kilgore Trout
July 3, 2006 at 3:57 pm
39Whoa! Now that was a thunder storm!
Aside from being Monday, it appears many commenters got their tit caught in a wringer, as well! It’s good to see piss and vinegar in a liberal blog again. Now, hows about we re-direct it towards the GDLASSOS that are running the country these days. This is after all a comedy/political satire blog. Jumpin’ Jesus! Very few world problems are solved here, anyways.
Aris
July 3, 2006 at 4:12 pm
40Adam: “Aris and Taylor (and, to an extent, Jawbone): Instead of asking me to read Aris’ post again (”and again”), and patiently explaining to me What All Liberals Believe, may I direct your attention to Joel’s post, the one directly beneath Aris’?… Also, feel free to check out the comments back at Atrios’ original post on the matter.”
I don’t think that there’s a more important issue right now than what happened to the mainstream media in the last decade or so, since the rise of the celebrity pundits and journalists, so please indulge me while I strive for more clarity: My position is that from the lack of universal health care to the disaster in Iraq, the way the mainstream media have covered and framed every recent debate has been unprofessional, unethical and has brought us closer and closer to authoritarianism.
Now, although I am an admitted reader of blogofascists, I’ll do my utmost to be civil and not to use profanities — which is now apparently the standard for civil discourse; the vileness of what someone actually says is irrelevant. It’s the “Passion of the Christ” standard: brutal, violent and extreme content is fine, as long as is is not expressed in bad, bad words.
I do not presume to be speaking for most liberals, for most of Atrios’ commenters, or for Joel. But I’m not speaking only for myself. As I stated above, my opinions, and I, are of little consequence. However, I am echoing the prominent liberal bloggers and authors who have unleashed themselves upon the mainstream media, and have provided a voice to many frustrated liberals like me who used to respect NPR, PBS, the newsweeklies and the dailies but now loath them. If you pay attention to Atrios, Digby, Daou, Alterman, Somerby, Hamsher, Boehlert, Foser, Tomorrow, even Steward and Colbert, and so on, their message is crystal clear: The mainstream press is not doing its job, not because of their ideology but because of their ethics and incompetence. Most journalists who do not write for openly partisan outlets are probably pretty mushy ideologically — and that includes Ifill. Indeed, if you read carefully what Joel said right after me, he did not accuse Ifill of being a closet con, as you imply. What he said, was that what conservative activists say about someone is not the criterion by which one can determine one’s ideology. He said nothing else about ideology. Instead, he said that Ifill is, “trying to curry favor with a powerful member of government.”
And he is quite correct: If you want part of the explanation for the current state of the media, you have to look at the insular social atmosphere of DC, and the fact that many, especially in the prestige press and in the government, belong to the same social circles, share the same Ivy League pedigree, go to the same parties, etc. Call them Millionaire (and aspiring Millionaire) Pundit Values (Somerby coined the term, I believe). The other obvious part of the explanation, seems to be that journalists have been conditioned to seek false “objectivity” and “balance” by years of attacks by cons for their supposedly liberal proclivities.
I know that I am not being particularly original. And that’s the point: I’m just pointing out that the prevailing consensus among liberal media critics is that the problem with our press is their public performance, not what they think or believe as private persons.
waterfowler
July 3, 2006 at 5:06 pm
41Howdy dee.
Sounds like some of these folks could use a Shiner Bock or two or three. No wonder we think you lefties are nuts…y’all are.
Enjoy Independence Day. Be safe.
piglet
July 3, 2006 at 5:09 pm
42I wonder what Star Jones is doing right now…
Mart
July 3, 2006 at 5:13 pm
43I was in the audience. I heard the negative tone of her voice and, at the time, it never occurred to me that Edwards hadn’t brought up Lynn Chaney’s sexuality “apropos of nothing.” But, I did think it odd that of all the politicians she’s dealt with the one she chose to portray in the negative was a Democrat. I also though it odd that with all the press Ms. Chaney has gotten, this bad behavior by Edwards had not already been rehashed.
When I read that Edwards was in fact responding to Ifill, I was disappointed in Ifill, but what was odd, now makes sense.
Ifill’s motivation escapes me, but attributing it to faulty memory doesn’t work. Like I said, I was in the audience. Everyone marveled at Ms. Ifill’s brilliance and her use of logic. Do you honestly think she would allow herself the indulgence in a collective mis-memory?
You don’t remember the debates so well. I don’t either. But you can bet the three people on stage have a much better recall of what happened and what it felt like. It is very difficult for me to reconcile the irritation Ms. Ifill had for Edwards on Thursday with a manufactured memory. Somebody does something you have an emotional reaction to it. That reaction may ebb and flow, but Ifill’s Edwards recollection? A decent response from a person behaving himself later evolves into anger, because “the story” changes? Please! And I would suspect Ms. Ifill may have looked at the tapes since. It is her job after all.
Nobody expects you, Wait Wait, to catch a guest in a fib, or even call them on it if you did - although, yeah, you probably would call one on it - you couldn’t help yourself. I suspect Atrios wants your reaction, which he got.
Who knows what Ms. Ifill’s motivation was, but I will never believe she spoke without one. I don’t think Ifill is trying to curry favor with Conservatives, but I do believe she succeeded in currying favor with people who can provide her with financial security. In the process she has lost considerable credibility.
You can love the way the woman sings “The Man I Love”, and still question her ethics.
I think we would all do better, if we questioned the motivation of people charged with providing us information.
fizz
July 3, 2006 at 5:23 pm
44The Story story is a story I haven’t seen emphasized enough elsewhere. I’m convinced that the distinction between people who think by stories or narratives and people who think by reasoning or facts is one of the basic cognitive divisions between human beings.
One of the Bushies’ real talents is the capture and promotion of certain narratives about current events. Those of us with a more factual style (I’m tempted to say the reality-based community) are left scratching our heads: “Why does anyone believe this *&@?” we wonder. But there are many many people who really don’t understand, for example, that Aesop’s Fables don’t prove anything, they only illustrate something, and that the distinction is important.
I don’t think reporters are any less “factual” than the average American. But they’ve been trained to look for the narrative, for the story, because fact-checking is supposed to be a relatively trivial exercise. Except it isn’t anymore.
p.s. not that narrative thinking isn’t important. See Antonio Damasio’s books for examples.
p.p.s. Who says WWDTM isn’t funny? Tasteless morons! I just paid sixty odd bucks to see them here in DC and it was worth every penny, though I got the “Bodett” rather than the “Felbers” package.
vachon
July 3, 2006 at 6:02 pm
45First clue: people who use the word “apropos” are uppity snots anyway.
cooper
July 3, 2006 at 6:33 pm
46Hey, waterfowler. If Mr. Trout is correct about these people getting their tits caught in a wringer, then 2 or 3 Shiner Bocks are definitely in order. My grandma told me it hurts like hell. She would have known with ten kids to clean up after. Happy 4th, you Texas wingnut.
ice, where you been, bud? I tell you the weather gets nice and nobody wants to sit and type endlessly into of their computer anymore.
dee, Provence - I’ll never get over. But now, the beach on the week of the 4th - it’s like Yogi Berra said “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded.” But the beach is nice. When it’s 95 in the city (it was today), that moderating sea breeze will easily lop off at least one or two degrees when your sitting out under the broiling sun all day. About the time you’re getting back, we should be winging our way to Maine, where the water is 74 F and the high temperature should top off around the mid eighties. Let see, what is the average high temperature for the Piedmont North Carolina during the last week of July and the first week of August? I think it’s a bit hotter than that. But don’t worry; I’ll be thinking fond thoughts of you and lifting yet another cold, crisp Molson’s to my lips. Peace, dee; oh, and I still have those kittens you were wanting.
Charles Pierce
July 3, 2006 at 6:35 pm
47Adam –
I thought I’d chime in here, since my job when I’m not exchanging quips with y’all is in what can safely be called the MSM. There’s a big problem with your defense of young Gwen. It’s already been pointed out, but it deserves to be said again. It is a capital crime in my business to advance “the story” in contravention of what me and John Peter Zenger like to call “the facts.” The construction of a master narrative, and the blind loyalty to it at the expense of reality-based reporting, is what has turned political journalism into a whorehouse with 500 piano players. While I grant you that W2 is hardly the place to do very much about it. Ifill has no defense for what is plainly a piece of arrant bullshit.
Adam Felber
July 3, 2006 at 8:06 pm
48Charlie! Glad you could come in here and throw Zenger’s name around.
I don’t disagree with you, just with your disagreement with me.
I definitely wasn’t trying to offer a defense for Ifill’s towering misremembrance. I don’t see how anything that compares her to a Nazi war criminal can be viewed as a “defense.” I then go on to say that her deception is probably more pathological than intentional. Is that a defense? I didn’t think so.
I just thought attempting to explain what’s going on inside the heads of some of your esteemed colleagues when they pull stunts like that might be more interesting than just ranting about reporters not doing their jobs. And for all you liberal blogosphere fans, if I’m not ranting in the approved manner, know that I filled out most of the appropriate forms for that yesterday before blogging, and they can be found at HQ.
cooper
July 3, 2006 at 8:16 pm
49Mr. Pierce, so why is Gwen still sitting in front of the PBS cameras, while using her per diem to buy Condi lunch or whatever? Who cleans up journalistic messes like we’ve been seeing of late? Do we just wring our hands and say “Tsk, I wish things were different”? These are rhetorical questions. I don’t expect you to answer these; that’s what Adam is for. “Over to you, Adam.”
BTW, I printed out “Idiot America” and still read it from time to time. Quite enjoyable.
hedera
July 3, 2006 at 9:09 pm
50waterfowler, I visited your great state last week (San Antonio) and treated myself to a couple of Shiner Bocks. About as good an American beer as I’ve had, short of microbrews. Have a great Independence day, all. Here by San Francisco Bay it looks like being partly cloudy with a moderate sea breeze, around 70 degrees. Eat your heart out. I walked from the hotel to the office and back in San Antone and the heat was like somebody hit me with something: better you than me, ‘fowler.
I really don’t think there’s anything I can add to the Gwen Ifill thread that hasn’t been said at least twice already…
ice weasel
July 3, 2006 at 10:03 pm
51Mr. Pierce, first some untethered worship. I check this link regularly for new stuff and like cooper, I have a copy of Idiot America which I review when I am need of some darkly humorous script. I’ve always enjoyed your contributions on WWDTM as well.
Wow, that’s two “misters” from me in one thread. This must be important or something.
Anyway, Adam, you know what the toughest thing is I have to get over when reading your stuff on FA? It’s that you are not trying replace Atrios, Kos, Digby, TBogg or any of the other bloggers out there who might be seen as “fellow travelers”. It’s that you are doing what you do, in your way and it happens to cover some of the same territory. I know where you are coming from Adam and you’re right, you’re good at it, it’s just in the context of current events, sometimes one doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Just as an aside, I’ll opine here that if the, “First, I can’t fault “Wait Wait” for not calling Ms. Ifill on this one.” line had not been present in your post, there may not have been the reaction to we’ve seen here.
There’s certainly an enormous difference between what takes place in the comment threads at other sites and what happens around here. So as much fun as it is, I’m sure, when someone such as Atrios links to you, there’s a sudden infusion of people commenting that really may not know where you are coming from. If I am reading correctly what you have written in here comments, that’s part of the problem, context.
And just to expand briefly on what I wrote above about PBS/NPR, it’s the fact that at one time NPR was truly different. We can argue all we want about bias and presentation, but the substance, it seems to me, was always there. And the effort to present the reporting objectively, maybe even dispassionately, was something that sated a unique hunger for information in me that no other source in the broadcast media could supply. Now, it’s really changed and not for the better. So it’s a little tougher to take, to see NPR regularly indulging in boneheaded things, when I know that organization was capable of much more.
One other thing I’ve been looking for an excuse to post and it seems it might dovetail in this thread nicely. There have been more than a few occasions where friends have commented on WWDTM (usually when I am listening to it in the home or in the car) and about half of them really don’t like the show. Curious as I am, I always ask why. The reason, almost invariably comes back to some variation of “a bunch of smart asses” theme. Which is precisely the reason I enjoy W2 (to steal Mr. Pierce’s shorthand). I like it because the celebrities on the panel aren’t there to play the fool, they are there to be as smart, and funny, as they can. Which for me, works on both levels quite well. W2 is exactly the kind of show NPR should produce and air. Luckily for John Stewart, The Daily Show never really has to worry about skewing shows on its’ own network. Given where NPR news is going, the odds are W2 may not have that luxury.
coop, I’ve been so busy it’s stupid. I stop by once in a while but I have I seldom have much time to post. I’m so far behind in “personal” projects that I really should spend any time having fun here. But here I am, irresponsible person that I am.
Maximum Bob
July 3, 2006 at 10:56 pm
52In the highly unlikely event that Atrios ever says, “Over to you, Maximum Bob,” I’m getting the hell out of Dodge.
cooper
July 4, 2006 at 4:54 am
53Yeah, hedera, but San Antonio’s a dry heat. Of course, so it a brick kiln.
ice, never grow up!
MaxBob, good thinking. And this was Adam’s birthday week. Damn!
cooper
July 4, 2006 at 6:13 am
54oops - “… so is a brick kiln.” What this blog needs is a good 5 cent spellchecker.
Susie
July 4, 2006 at 7:28 am
55Who is Gwen Ifill? The only Gwen I know is a gay German man who works at a wig and hat shop near Lincoln Center.
Pete IVDL
July 4, 2006 at 8:23 am
56Ahhhh… Thank you for that kind introduction, Mr. Cooper. It’s always a delight to speak on behalf of…rustlerustlerustle Oh. Sorry. Hey, Coop’s nearly totally correct, my little business of cleaning and restoring old records and tapes has kinda boomed on me, although I don’t do much business on the ‘net. It’s more of an annoying, long-winded advertising spot with technical bits so I don’t get annoyed by pesky customers. But I missed you guys! Now I’ve finished the end of financial year stuff, and all I can do now is finish off last month’s jobs while I wait for my shiny new quad-cpu thingamabob (it’ll let me make 4 times as many mistakes as the old one did!) and all the mixing doodads and cooling gewgaws, and I can hopefully start to actually enter the AA (Apathetics Anonymous) Lurkers’ Lounge once every blue moon… Actually, coop shamed me in to coming back to drop off my spare key and pick up some FA flyers…
Goddayum. All these pastel pixels and a potpourri of patented peripatetic personages and just everything else alitterative starting with p, and now there’s shouting in the Lobby and it’s not about fundamentalism? This is a whole new level alright. A new suburb, even.
Much though I love watching Gwenny, I have to admit I do it lately with the sound down. Jim and Robert are still august as hell, but this time Gwen’s lost something. I don’t expect it matters in the long run, but we all sound like we had such high expectations that when someone on the show does step in it big time, you could actually hear the collective sigh. I didn’t hear the actual interview or subsequent discussion of the interview first hand, so I can’t say more without appearing as clueless as I actually am.
Have a great and safe fourth, y’all. (Hope the Global Policeman takes a day off and puts his feet up!) And May The Fourth Be With You.
siobhan
July 4, 2006 at 9:27 am
57“There’s certainly an enormous difference between what takes place in the comment threads at other sites and what happens around here.”
Which is why we tend to hang out here over the long run.
It’s interesting to visit other sites, but I appreciate (greatly) that FA focusses on the actual events of the world, rather than trampolining off of comments from other blogs or talking heads. Both left and right blogs seem to spend as much time focussing on what the others are saying - opining - as they do on the news. It’s the media equivalent of flag burning amendments. By continually rehashing manufactured controversies - even in condemning them - bloggers help make them a useful strategy. Worse still, people waste their hours puffing up at the latest BS from Coulter or O’Reilly, rather than the true outrages.
* sigh *
Mart
July 4, 2006 at 10:13 am
58The more time passes, the harder I find it to swallow that Gwen Ifill was not well prepared for that question. No matter what happens, from now on, many W2 listeners will believe that John Edwards brought up Lynn Chaney during the debate out of the blue. Some people will tell others and, voila! John Edwards has been slimed, and Gwen Ifill is being excused, not defended, but excused. Funny how that works!
A Digby post (“Get It Out There” 6/22/06) describes a ’92 incident in which Mary Matalin made a major gaffe for which she had to apologize publicly. When Digby commented to an experienced political consultant on how “Matalin had really stepped in it. He looked at me like I was a moron and said, ‘she got it out there, didn’t she?’”
Belated birthday wishes Mr. Felber! Your show is terrific, one reason I still support WBEZ even though the change in NPR since K Street frustrates me no end.
You may not believe in the Universal Lying Media Theory until you read it in the Tribune, but I suggest The Nation’s “The 10th Anniversary National Entertainment State.” It’s a good lesson on who controls what information we have access to and what is at stake in the war over the Internet.
siobhan
July 4, 2006 at 10:13 am
59Oh, and belated birthday greetings! As Murray said, give thanks that you don’t have to share the date with Mr. “(Not Quite) Born on the Fourth of July”.
Aris
July 4, 2006 at 11:03 am
60siobhan: “Worse still, people waste their hours puffing up at the latest BS from Coulter or O’Reilly, rather than the true outrages…”
Which are what, exactly?
siobhan
July 4, 2006 at 11:18 am
61Which are what, exactly?
Oh, what the president, vice president, Addington, Rumsfeld, Frist, congress and the rest of the lot are up to (or ignoring), for a start. The real outrages being the stuff that provided the initial grist for the commentators.
I vote for people based on what they are or are not doing, not some talking head’s opinion of them. I (naively, no doubt) feel like it’s a better use of my outrage to write the people who are supposed to represent me and tell THEM what I’m thinking. Sites like this are fine as a friendly place to hang out and engage in conversation, but they are no substitute for action.
Peter Sagal
July 4, 2006 at 11:42 am
62Folks — Peter Sagal, here, and I’ve been following along with this conversation with great interest, from my crouching position behind Adam, as he takes bullets for me.
Since I asked the question to Ifill, and failed (or wisely refrained from, your choice) following up on it, I will say two things: 1) I honestly didn’t know, as Gwen responded to my general question about the debates, that her version of events wasn’t quite accurate, and 2) even I had known, I probably would not have called her on it. As Adam has pointed out, and others above have agreed, whatever we do on WWDTM, we try hard to show our guests, and thus our audience, a good time. Although we did give Tom Hanks some ribbing about Turner and Hooch.
As for what lay behind Gwen’s mistake? Malfeasance, corruption, ignorance, or an honest error? I don’t know. I think Adam’s Theory of the Story is a compelling one. I will say that to Gwen’s credit, she did ask Cheney, on live national TV, how in the world he could support a constitutional amendment discriminating against gays when his own family had gay people in it. I mean, maybe she could have been a little less vague about it, but, c’mon, she’s not Sean Hannity. Let us keep some proportion.
And I do want to rise to the defense of my friends and colleagues at NPR News. Every now and then you hear about how NPR used to be so much better, before they got all corporate and mainstream. In the good old days, NPR News was basically a bunch of guys and gals in a studio in Washington DC doing “analysis” by talking on the phone to reporters at other organizations the day after a story broke. Now we — I should say, “they,” I’ve got nothing to do with it — are aggressively pursuing stories, breaking stories, opening bureaus, hiring journalists, equipping them with resources, constantly striving for excellence and real achievment. In my highly biased opinion, for example, nobody does a more aggressive interview with powerful people than Steve Inskeep. Nobody does better legal analysis than Nina Totenberg. (Except maybe my friend Jess Bravin at the Wall Street Journal.) The foreign reporting, particularly and especially from war zones, is second to none. Etc. etc.
What NPR News is not, is an advocacy organization. It’s not “Democracy Now.” It’s not, no matter what conservatives say, the liberal equivalent of Rush Limbaugh. It’s just first rate broadcast journalism. Really. I’m sorry they don’t say everything you want to hear. But who does?
siobhan
July 4, 2006 at 11:58 am
63HA! I knew if we kept this up long enough, Peter would have to weigh in. Mission Accomplished! (now, where did that banner go?)
cooper
July 4, 2006 at 12:47 pm
64siobhan, regretably one of the swabbies on the aircraft carrier let his corner of the banner get away from him as they were taking it down and the banner became soiled, so they had to destroy it. The proper way to discard a soiled or damaged banner is to burn it. No senators were in attendance to protest. Oh, the irony.
hedera
July 4, 2006 at 1:19 pm
65Following on siobhan’s comment about voting for people because of what they actually do, and writing to one’s representatives: I dropped Dianne Feinstein a note last night effectively saying “Enough with the flag burning crap, you have real work to do”, after getting her June Washington Report with comments on Iraq, the budget, climate change, the CAFE standards, etc. - all good stuff and right on the money - and not a word about her right-pandering sponsorship of the flag burning amendment. Probably she edited that out of the email she sends to California addresses.
siobhan
July 4, 2006 at 1:23 pm
66Hedera, at the very least she probably edits it out of any zip that starts with 94.
Allison in Santa Cruz
July 4, 2006 at 2:47 pm
67Siobhan (and Hedera),
Or any ZIP code that starts with 95-
Ann
July 4, 2006 at 3:21 pm
68I’m glad that we heard from Peter Sagal, and I agree that it would have been inappropriate to challenge Ifill during the show about her memory or interpretation. I just hope she gets some flak for it elsewhere. Surely SOMEone has brought her mistake to her attention by now? (Dare we hope she reads FA?)
Happy belated birthday, Adam, and happy Independence Day to all (even our friends of a non-U.S. persuasion)!
Dale
July 4, 2006 at 4:34 pm
69I’m not saying media misrepresentation isn’t an important story, but I have to echo Siobhan’s call at this point to, if not a return to the actual issues, a return to the media coverage of the actual issues, or even the media coverage of the media coverage of the actual issues…but to argue with Adam at this point is to object to the media (Adam)’s coverage of the media (WWDTM)’s coverage of the media (Gwen Ifill)’s recollection of the media (debate) in which the media (Gwen Ifill) asked the politicians questions (which in themselves were several stepped removed from actual issues, insofar as a discussion of gay and lesbian rights had to pass through John Edwards’s opinion of Dick Cheney’s opinion of his daughter). Kevin Bacon, anyone?
piglet
July 4, 2006 at 5:47 pm
70Mr. Sagal: you’re mention of Steve Inskeep’s interview skills reminded me of his “welcome” interview with newly appointed White House press secretary Tony Snow. Quite a tango. One of those moments that make me grin like an idiot while on my morning dog walk.
tess
July 4, 2006 at 8:29 pm
71I’m pretty sure she includes it in zip codes starting with 93-
David
July 5, 2006 at 6:10 am
72Off topic.
Cooper (and other FA cyberfriends),
Dad rode off Sunday night in the silver Thunderbird. It does have, as I suspect you already know, a Holman-Moody powerplant. I forgot to ask if he had any final words for Gwen the NPR personality. He would have enjoyed meeting Gwen the German wig-and-hat person.
Mary
July 5, 2006 at 6:36 am
73Adam- happy belated natal anniversary
Charlie & Peter- Welcome. Your presence honors us.
Ok, maybe having retired last Friday has made me too laid back but - in defense of Adam and W2- I feel the need to quote that famed celeberty, Foghorn Leghorn, “That was, I say, that was a joke son!”
Now, if y’all will excuse me, I need to get ready for school
ice weasel
July 5, 2006 at 8:07 am
74Mr. Sagal (that’s three “misters” in this thread!), first, thanks very much for jumping in here and responding. I’m not sure if it is by design or by chance that suddenly Adam has a new site and suddenly, all sorts of the people we talk about are here to talk to, but I digress…
I appreciate your comments defending NPR news. I think that perhaps what separates is how we view what NPR’s job is. You say NPR is not Democracy Now! and frankly, I’m glad it isn’t. However, what NPR isn’t, is a journalistic adversary of the power. I think your characterization of NPR is your own, not one I put forth. I don’t care about corporatization, per se. But if I may indulge in some examples, I will.
When Ken Tomlinson took the reins of the CPB, there was, at least in my mind, a conscious shift in what NPR reported and how they reported it. I don’t think this “balance” helped NPR as NPR was never, as you so deftly put it, Democracy Now!. NPR was reasaonable objective and typically, did an excellent of getting to the heart of the matter. Since then I see more and more fluff in the news. I see more and more softballing bush administration stories.
Another example, Barbara Bradley Hagerty. Hagerty’s reporting on religion for NPR has been brazenly supportive of a christian agenda. She’s misrepresented opinions and done some more than questionable reporting.
Reporting mistakes are thicker than I can ever recall them. They got the Governor Tim Kaine’s position on abortion wrong. They didn’t report on Michael Chertoff’s flip-flop on sending National Guard troops to the border. They incorrectly labeled Harry Reid as taking bribes from Jack Abramoff when he did not. They regularly, somehow, seem to fail to mention a criminals political affiliation when they are conservative yet seldom seem to make this mistake when it’s a Democrat. Mara Liasson’s work in the last few years has been rife with odd inaccuracies and conservatve slanted reporting (such as featuring all republicans attacking Democrats but not rebuttal from the dems).
Mr. Sagal, please understand where I am coming from. I have been a public broadcasting listener since it began more than 35 years ago. Since that time, as an adult (let’s say since the late seventies) I’ve probably logged an average of 6 hours a day. And while these are all my personal judgments, of course, I think I have a good base of experience to base those opinions on.
NPR need not be stridently partisan to please me. What NPR needs to be is above the political and religious fray. I don’t need a christian telling me about religion (there are numerous outlets for that already) anymore than I think NPR should hang on to legacies such a Cokie Roberts (who has become more and more unlistenable) while letting brilliant broadcasters such as Bob Edwards, shuffle off to XM. We can politely disagree about Mr. Inskeep. I find his work to be far below Mr. Edwards. Is it unfair for me to hold him to that standard? Sure it is. But there it is anyway, that’s life. And stepping into that job led, inexorably, to comparison like that.
Pehaps if the times were not partisan as they are, perhaps if the battles we’re fighting, politically and in war, were not so important, the things I’m noticing at NPR would be no big deal. But we do not get to choose that context and I think it’s incumbent on our media to change and adapt just as we have to. If the situation is more bitterly partisan, then NPR should strive even harder to be more objective. Instead I see them sliding into the mold of existing broadcasters. NPR should be different by definition.
Sorry Mr. Sagal, I just don’t see it. I wish, as hard as I can, that I could see it. But wishing doesn’t change things. Sadly, we have examples of that in the news as well.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond and thank you for WWDTM. It’s a great show.
Hey, whatever happened to that Philber guy that used to be on all the time? He was kind of funny.
Taylor
July 5, 2006 at 8:34 am
75I’m afraid yucking it up, dismissing complaints as “We’re not Democracy Now!” and implicitly buying into the cop-out that, if both left and right are angry, we must be doing something right, is really running away from the main issue.
American journalism has a valued and critical role in a functioning democracy. It is there so that voters can make informed decisions. Journalism is failing very badly in this country, and our democracy is all the worse for it.
You can blame celebrity journalism, or you can blame Micheal Deaver, or you can go back to JFK and how he played the press. Most people don’t care. The fact is, US journalism is in a steep decline.
When, as happened in recent days, a jihad is raised against the media on some ludicrous pretext of treason, ultimately the only defence the press has is the support of The People.
Treating your readers, viewers and listeners with contempt, feeding them pablum, misrepresenting (or “misremembering”) facts for whatever reason, all are ways of undermining the only real source of strength the journalists in this country ultimately have.
Saywhat
July 5, 2006 at 12:12 pm
76Damn, some of the horses here are so high I’m thinking of calling in Mr. Ed for an intervention. cough Taylor cough.
ice weasel
July 5, 2006 at 1:31 pm
77Another great example, listen this afternoon or this evening to the almost fawning obit for Ken Lay on NPR news.
Pfui.
Mart
July 5, 2006 at 3:42 pm
78ice weasel and Taylor nailed it.
When Katerina hit NPR was going on and on about the rioting that wasn’t happening during the eviction of settlers on the West Bank. There was nothing about the 500,000 immigration protesters in the Loop until the Latina media had been broadcasting about it for 24 hrs. There’s been next to no coverage of the anti-war demonstrations.
There are still plenty of wonderful employees of NPR and PBS, still many whose politics I don’t know. But, much has changed and to pretend it is all new and improved, stronger, tougher, better is bunk.
Pete IVDL
July 5, 2006 at 3:48 pm
79Isn’t it strange how we (well, I do anyway) tend to remember the journalists who work for public broadcasters more than the Monty Python-esque reporters who appear, flap their lips, and disappear like farts in a strong wind before magically hosting the late-afternoon National Geo channel reruns? I’m not sure if it’s their insight, their humour, their passion, or (more importantly), their dispassion; but the public broadcast journos seem to be able to ask the right questions of the right people at more or less the right time.
Recently here in Oz, a very well-known reporter who built an enormous reputation with our public broadcaster (ABC) in the 60’s and 70’s, but then moved to work for one of the commercial channels, popped his clogs while reporting on a major two-week-long story. It was a really peculiar remembrance done about him - even though he had anchored the ‘47 Minutes’ show for 15 years, every single feature shown of his life and work detailed his work for the ABC, and kind of mentioned in passing that he was (mumble mumble) the face of ‘60 Minutes’ in Australia (mumble mumble). Even the channel he worked for just glossed over his last 20 years, instead showing minutes and minutes of footage from his early days at the ABC, before finishing with a quick still of him sitting on the stool in front of one of the populist stories he’d been associated with in his last years.
I guess my bias is towards people who can closely and clearly question the newsmakers (which I could never do), instead of towards the people who report the news (which absolutely anyone can do). I guess also that we (or at least I) tend to hold such reporters to a much higher standard… So when they don’t make the bar (and everyone has an off day), the disappointment is felt more keenly.
I’m not qualified to even think about commenting on trends at NPR, all I ever see/hear is two hours a day, an hour of Jim Lehrer (Newshour) and an hour of Robert Siegel (ATC), and that only for the past 8 years or so; but I do know I go out of my way to listen to these reporters tell what they think and what questions they ask. And yes, Barbara Hagerty (among others) seems to be a massive overcompensation on NPR’s part to show that truth as they report it isn’t just lefty politics.
As always, if anyone has seen my point, drop me a line.
Murray
July 5, 2006 at 7:47 pm
80J. Murphy
You can get your FA T-shirt at Felberpalooza. or hopefully on line sometime soon.
Now I just got to get some artwork, cash, help, etc.