Returning to LA, Leaving Baghdad

er…Adam, maybe this was intended to be a pun, but did you mean “arms” or “alms” there in sentence 2?

I would have emailed this, but I don’t know your address.

Not to worry. Eventually people will come to realize that this war is Adam Carolla’s fault.

It’s obvious : when the rest of the free world laughed itself sick at the “Mission: Accomplished” pissing competition/circus, it restarted the whole war, even though “it” was “accomplished”.

I’ve just finished “Bush On The Couch”. The description of the sad and hilarious “Mission Accomplished” business was right on the money. But now I’m scared, really scared… And Adam (Lobster click him) is right about passing blame. It’s going to start subtly, but it’s going to start. That’s how Bush works - he fucks something up because he has an urge, can’t comprehend the consequences, and when the going gets tough, the tough get buttfucked. Pardon my American.

Ann, I thought about that, but I didn’t know why Mormons would be associated with “alms” more than, say, Baptists. I guess there are gaps in my education.

Pete, thanks for sharing that image. But seriously, that’s been the story of W’s life, has it not? He screws up, and Daddy or Daddy’s friends bail him out.

To start with Clinton destroyed the moral fabric of America.

With no morals we have little ability to maintain a long struggle, we are all too consumed with pleasure and debauchery. We have succumbed to the lure of evolution, killing babies and being gay, thus God forsaken. Even the shining example of Dick and W are not enough to redeem the US. Arab countries seeing that we no longer have the backbone needed to sustain a war (and God must be on their side in punishing a nation of Evolution believing, gay, baby killers) know that they just have to hold on for about 3 years or so and the US will slink back to it’s silk robes, Carl Sagan books, while watching the Slaughter Babies Game Show on LOGO TV.

See. It’s Clinton’s fault. It was that blow job that wrecked Iraq.

So about all this ice cream talk…

We did not fly enough ginormous US of American flags staple-gunned to sticks stuck in the back of our ginormous jacked-up gun-racked gas-guzzling big-tired pickup trucks.

Also we did not buy enough “Support Our Troops!!” yellow ribbon magnets from that guy in China.

But I’m up for ice cream, always. Does Iraq have Dippin Dots, teh Ice Cream of the Future? No?

(Salt Lake? Dammit, hubby and I should have taken our vacation there and dragged my entire extended family to the show. Stupid of us to come to Maui instead. Stupid tropical paradise with great food and drink and flowers and whales and… okay, well I hope you had a nice time in Shit Lake Salty, Adam!)

Rumsfeld said it: “The U.S. government still functions as a five and dime store in an eBay world.”

It’s the liberals’ insistence on tradition - they just won’t budge. From generally accepted accounting principles in mom-and-pop corporations, all the way up to checks and balances at the the federal level - the Left insists that we stop to cross every T, dot every I, request every warrant. If we could have streamlined - maybe move SCOTUS into the East Wing and cut Congress down to 50 oro 60 hand-picked white men — it would all have been much different.

Julia

Liberals are just so 18th-century…

And don’t forget, we insisted on our children going to college rather than war. Had we L/liberals been truly patriotic Americans, our children would have been the first in line at the nation’s armed services recruiting offices (and not the friggin’ Coast Guard, dammit!). Now I just have to come up with a compelling “damned liberals” argument for the administration’s shitcanning of General Shinseki when he said we’d actually need some extra troops over there. Oh, the heady days of pre-war, when the whole thing could be accomplished with 100,000 troops or less and would pay for itself . . . Well, I’m off to spend the weekend searching for Iraqis to shower me with flowers and chocolate, or whatever the love-fest in Iraq is supposed to end in.

Just look at all this negativity! No wonder the war/invasion/occupation/exporting of democracy thingy is not going well. The fault lies with all you Nattering Nabobs of Negativity….

Oop, sorry. I had a flashback to the Nixon years there for a moment.

I want dibs on the square that says “Didn’t have faith.” In God, or Bush, or whomever.

Now that I think about it a bit more, though, maybe it’s a matter of semantics. Lately it feels like there’s a whole other lexicon out there that sure as hell doesn’t jive with the one I’ve been using my whole life. For example, “victory,” “response,” and “fine job” just don’t seem to mean what they used to.

Damn it, Invigilator, I wanted to put money on “you liberals didn’t support us and now look what happened!” Now I’m just going to have to settle for “you damn liberals didn’t support our economy enough by driving giant SUVs to support of big truck manufacturers.”

Oh, I don’t know if it was really a boo after that Alito joke. It sounded more to me like an “ooouuh !” - slightly shocked but overall appreciative of the joke’s boldness. But maybe Adam can comment - if he was paying attention instead of polishing up his Poconoes repertoire.
Adam, the “curse of the sexiest man alive” made me laugh out loud (not an easy task) - and with the repeats we get here on sunday, I LOL’d twice !

I get the feeling that we’re all missing an important point here. The Bush administration (and I use the word in its broadest sense) has never needed an actual logical, honest, coherent argument to make a decision!

No, no, no, the economy was caused by the invasion of Iraq, stupid.

And Clinton forced Bush to jump into a flight suit and declare that the “mission” was “accomplished”. If Bush hadn’t done that to rescue Valerie Plame, all Americans would be eating Yellowcake right now. Don’t forget that.

Finally, he’d like to draw your attention to the fact that Karl Rove has been assisting various enquiries, on his own time, in the cause for Freedom.

And let’s not forget “Kleen[ex] Skies”, nor what the Democrats wanted to do - cuttify down all those old-growth forests to save birds.

No, my friends, the results of the currant administration will give Liberals much work for many years to come.

You’re welcome.

The lefty nay-sayers, in spelling out a worst-case scenario, effectively gave them the road-map to fail. If they hadn’t described how it could all end in a civil war, the Iraquis never would have figured it out for themselves.

That, and we failed to get excited enough when the statue came down. Everything was going great until then.

Never having watched Jeopardy (since that would involve a TV and all), I was impressed by Ken Jennings. Quick and witty.

People, don’t you understand they’re just imitating our best traits: Decisiveness and taking action.

The good people of Iraq are just practicing pre-emptive warfare… They’ve decided that thier neighbors are potential threats and need to be dealt with. They don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud over thier dome.

It’s the shrub doctrine. So I’m kinda confused as to why ShrubCo is appealing for calm, dialogue and stepping back from the brink. How French-like.

Thank you for letting me vent a little.

BTW, Allison in SC… Welcome to the LurkerLounge, we have a very dignified and anonymous guest list, an open bar against the far wall (paid for by skimming 10 percent of the donated paypal amount, Adam will never figure it out), reading salons and many witty if somewhat shy patrons. Welcome!

hedera, good analogy of Yugoslavia vs Iraq -with the same results, too, I’m afraid. Maybe partioning would have been the best outcome in hindsight. Once the civil war starts, we’ll have to go back in there with more force, separate the warring parties and stand guard on the borders between them for, oh I don’t know - how long have we been in Korea - over 50 years. The last I looked, there’s still no light at the end of that tunnel.

Adam, I just noticed the new cover art for your novel. So you continue to cruelly juggle cats, but now you use your feet? Acck!

hedera, you’re right on the money with the Tito/Yugoslavia comparison.

The amazing thing is, we’ve seen this movie before, and the administration is still surprised by the ending.

And don’t forget, it’s all the Democrats’ fault because they didn’t stop us from going to war.

I saw a side-bar ad on some right-wing blog the other day–”I’d rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than ride in a car with Ted Kennedy.” Mildly amusing, but still another variation on, “They did it first.”

MBob, that’s old news, we’ve already talked about this, it was an accident, my advisors have advised me that this is irrelevant, and it’s very ungentlemanly of you to bring it up again and again and again. (Did I leave anything out? I was trying to channel Scott McClelland, and it was very painful.)

Sorry, siobhan, sometimes my mind is too literal…

Congrats on winning this week’s WWDTM!

Any chance of getting Ken Jennings on as a regular panelist? He was hot!

Anonymous,

I also grew up during the Vietnam War. It was a disgrace how this country treated its Vietnam vets. I’m not referring to the mythical ’spitting’ instances, I’m referring to the inadequate care–physical, mental, social–our government gave them when they came home.

The same thing is happening now with returning Iraqi vets. Sure, they’re getting their new prosthetic arms and legs, but their mental traumas are being inadequately treated, by all reports. This is not a new problem. Societies throughout history have been stumped by the problem of reintegrating their warriors into peacetime society after the fighting stops. All the more reason not to send them there until after all other alternatives have been exhausted. They were not, in this case.

Please don’t make the mistake of conflating ’support for the troops’ with ’support for the war.’ They are two separate things. It is indeed honorable to serve one’s country. All the more reason not to waste those lives on a dishonorable venture such as Iraq.

You don’t say whether you think we got out of Vietnam “with honor.” Does it really matter? We declared “victory” and got out.

Supporting the troops and supporting the war are we different things. However, to protest at the funerals of those who have fallen for the country is not appropriate. I have family who has protested this war in DC. I still respect their views and opinion. Please understand this - I think we are giving somewhat (though this is questionable) good care right now but, the Veteran’s Administration is being stripped in the budget and the needs for other programs are so big. The only real solution is either to raise taxes or to cut budget in other areas. It is not fair to troops who have not died to be left in the cold. Only a sound fiscal policy and one that funds entirely the needs of our country is the answer. We cannot spend money that we don’t have but, we must use the money that we do have on the prolonged care of our troops but, in the field and injured at home. We, by going into this conflict, must uphold the promises that we give to our servicemen and women to care for them when then return wounded or uninjured.

Sharon. I am not talking about weather Iraq was dishonorable or honorable. I am talking about the future and the high probability that this “experiment,” if it can be called such, to be labeled in the next election. The fact is that we are stuck there weather you agreed with president or not. Let’s not label but, look at how we can withdraw “with honor.” Must we must leave and let the government fall into civil war - no. This is my understanding of peace “with honor.” But, the reality is that we cannot stop this event. This is why I mentioned the need for more regional players and Iraqi troops. Let us look to history once again. Ford, in withdrawing the troops from the country, did not promise material support. South Vietnamese troops who were loyal to the government tanks’ and planes’ were destroyed leaving no replacements. The South’s government fell. This is not honorable. I have been there in the past year and I question the worth of going there and taking up France’s position in this conflict. Some of the region’s development and major FDI inflows are coming from the United States and the irony is that finally years after are conflict our relations are being healed by economics. Vietnam and Iraq are in indeed two separate issues. One is history and the other is a current event that seems to end in no other solution then a prisoner’s dilemma.

Maximum Bob I want to respond to your comments by saying two things. First, I also mentioned Korea as well as Vietnam specifically, the monuments in DC. This is provocative imagery and is not meant to say Iraq = Vietnam. Secondly, these three instances are three different wars and are not, not I repeat, the same thing. Each has it own challenges that must be looked at separately. What is critical to understand in my opinion is that we see what is happening now and what the road forward is not look back and re-hash and argue with what was.

I answer you and Sharon as I respect you opinions and what to clarify what I meant.

Ryan, read my post again. It was not I who compared the two events.

Anonymous, it was not Ford who pulled the troops out of Vietnam, it was Nixon. That was the “secret plan” that won him re-election in 1972.

I believe it was you who referred to the comparison as a “they did it first” argument. Since I was not clear I will be more blunt about it. You are wrong, if anything that argument would be “they did much, much worse”.

I’m not sure how I didn’t get that across the first time. The post was entirely based on the “they did it first” theme and even quotes you twice to that point. I must be really bad at making my point. I keep getting accused of not reading posts, but it would appear you didn’t read mine.

Are you one of those “speed” readers. That stuff is silly, you cannot glean more than a glimpse of the actual content. I know a few folks that fancy themselves speed readers, claiming to have read this article or that book. You cannot have an intelligible conversation on the topic with them since they barely read the lines more-less between them aka the concepts the groups of words as a whole are meant to relay.

Maybe accusing someone of not reading your words is a convenient way to avoid the actual topic? That’s kinda silly, just say “I have nothing more to say”. You kinda sounded like Maximum Bob and his claims that what he wrote wasn’t what he meant but continues to sing the same tune every time he types.

RRRRyan,

That link in your last post was nothing but vacuous vitriol. Please read the last several months of FA for the debunking of every argument made in that flash.

Adam had it so right in his post last month Back in the 90’s We Were So Cool. The best solution (and perhaps the only solution) to militant groups so fanatical that they are willing to die for the cause is to let them govern their own nation-state. You can blow yourself up in your own parliament only so many times!

Regarding the current state of Iraq, I can only say that I am profoundly sad. And I can’t even say how profoundly sad I am. It’s that profound.

Our soldiers have been maimed and killed with no real progress up to this point - lives lost and destroyed. I cannot see the point. And we’re now approaching the number killed on 9/11, and the world sure feels alot less secure to me now.

Anonymous, I wasn’t suggesting that you were equating Iraq and Vietnam. I was doing the equating, at least in a limited way. The “peace with honor” thing that people are desperately searching for in Iraq is exactly what Nixon said he wanted in Vietnam. Unfortunately, while he continued to search for it, many good men and women died.

And this notion of turning things over to the Iraqis mirrors the Vietnamization program that we tried to pull off in South Vietnam. Unfortunately, there was no way to convince the South Vietnamese to give their lives for a government they didn’t believe in. We could have stayed in Vietnam another 2 years or 20, and the North Vietnamese still would have rolled up the south like a window shade.

Finally, I have to caution against writing off a study of the past as meaningless rehashing. While it would be wrong to say that Iraq is exactly the same as Vietnam, it would be just as wrong to ignore their commonalities, and not learn from what happened almost 40 years ago. That over 50,000 Americans died in that conflict is truly tragic; for that many to have died and for us to have learned nothing from it would be unforgivable.

A transcript of Eisenhower’s “military-industrial complex” speech. Eisenhower, we should all recall, was an actual military man, not a pretend one.

Remember there are plenty of blues in the red states and vice versa. And besides, WWDTM has universal appeal, right?

RRRRyan, I’m not sure why you think the Ted Kennedy thing is so much worse than the Dick Cheney thing.

Both of them used potentially lethal machinery (car, gun) under the influence of alcohol.

Both had an accident. As far as I know, there is no reason to think that either of these was intentional, but I suppose it’s possible that either/both could have been.

Both of them failed to report the accident in a timely manner. Was it because both men wanted to give their blood alcohol content some time to decrease? Perhaps. I don’t suppose we’ll ever know.

Sounds like a pretty similar situation to me, except Cheney’s victim was lucky enough not to die.

Army recruiting’s kinda slow; maybe cartoon generals are the next big thing.

bob, that was funny.

We’ll never know if Cheney was legally drunk or not, will we? At his age, with all the drugs he takes for his heart condition, one beer might be enough to elevate his blood alcohol beyond the legal limit. But we’ll never know.

Sharon. Thanks for the correction. You got me there. However, I hope my response answers your question.

Cooper. I’m not a sap. I have every right to be concerned for my country and my brothers. It is true that they are keeping me here; I have the utmost appreciation for them. However, are we to leave our troops “out to dry?” You should look at Maximum Bob’s finally paragraph in post 60. If you think that there are people there in VA hospitals that do not care so much about their buddies that they want to go back and they see this as a pointless war then you are wrong. In truth there are probably both. Some as cynical about our country as you and those who want to see that the mission is finished. These young men so believe in our country they are optimistic that it will care for them. Maybe if we found a way to actually care for them then we would not betray their youthful exuberance and love of country.

Maximum Bob, in response to your comment I wanted to say a couple of things. I agree we need to look at our lessons and learn. However, in the political finger pointing that is Washington, DC this is a fallacy. I just wish that a group in the middle, both Democrats and Republicans, will speak up with regard to this war and try to figure out how we can effectively pass the torch and remove ourselves out of this quagmire. Call this naive if you will but, do not doubt that this will be a factor in the next election (it will be highly partisan and there will be equal muck on both sides). It is certain that we don’t want another Vietnam nor do we want to have a new national government tear itself apart along sectional lines. The results would be disastrous for both our country and our troops.

“Maybe if we found a way to actually care for them then we would not betray their youthful exuberance and love of country.” Anonymous, we have a way to take care of the wounded vets from all our recent wars, but your president is giving it away to the richest 1% in the form of tax cuts.

Cooper. Do not assume that since I’m a Republican that I agree with everything that the President proposes. This is exactly the finger pointing that gets us nowhere in Washington and pisses me off (If you took the time to read all my posts then you would understand that I hate partisanship). Now, there is a difference between cutting taxes and simplifying the tax code (by the way the tax cuts should not be made permanent). If you want to have a discussion about economics then we can. But, do not use my own words against me to change the subject. Moreover, I took the time to respond to you concerns regarding my opinion and explained it ever more. By shifting it we have done nothing. The fact of the matter is that he is our President not yours or mine. You can hate him or love him or even not give a darn but, you must respect both sides. Blind hatred does nothing to move the country forward.

Oh, my bad, that’s Moussaoui, not al Faridhi. D’oh. I’ll run for the lurkers’ lounge now…

We now have Allison and Pete in the lounge, this is exciting.

I’m tending bar tonight Pete, what’s your poison?

Keep the paypal donations coming people I need to skim enough to pay for the Grey Goose.

Sorry Adam, I have always liked the “Salt Lake isn’t the end of the world, but you can see it from here” t-shirt. Good job on the show, is it just me or do you seem to win a lot? Some kind of liberal conspiracy, perhaps?

cooper, do you have any idea how much “rich” people pay even after the tax cuts? It is sick, by the time you count all the deductions I cannot take because I make too much you are talking out of your rear.

Average persons taxes:
Child tax credit, $3000 each.
IRA deductible deposit $4000 each filing jointly.
School loan interest
Home loan interest
charitable donations - all deductible.
15% tax bracket.

“rich person”:
Child tax credit, $250 each.
IRA - you don’t need this you’re “rich”
School loan interest - not deductible
Home loan interest - YES!
charitable donations - not all deductible
30%+ Yes, that’s twice the tax with nearly none of the deductions.

I’m not that “rich”, my wife and I file jointly and it amounts to a slightly above average income each. Despite being not that “rich” I will be paying the federal government more than a lot of you folks make in a year.

That’s BOGUS and all of the belly aching about “tax cuts for the rich” is BOGUS!

Maybe this will shed some light on it for you: http://www.chrisvschris.com/wp/the-truth-about-taxes

Just to give you an idea, I just got a late 1099 for $3000. It increased my tax liability by $1200. Drop this John Kerry smear rhetoric. Our tax system is so skewed we’ll have to have a couple dozen more “tax cuts for the rich” to even approach fairness.

Stephen, a variant that rolls around in my head often these days is “America 2006 - not the end of the dream, but you can see it from here”.

Right now the estimate is Hussein’s victims numbered 43,000 per year. So 2,000 military men of honor, valor, and heroism, traded for 172,000 a significant portion of which were innocent civilians. Not futile, not a waste, not dishonorable.

Where does that estimate come from Rrrryan? Is it credible? You compare that figure with the number of American troops killed, but ignore the losses of our allies, and give not even a thought? to the thousands of Iraqis who have died as a consequence. I’d have to say that your comparison is about as valid as your statement that Conservatives have higher standards.

It is the Iraqi estimate that is quoted all over the place:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/specialreports/iraqgrav es/s_169995.html

I did the math. 1.3 million victims over 30 years. 1,300,000/30 = 43,000.

Ironically, or not, 1.3 million is also the number of people sent to Auschwitz during it’s 4 years in use.

You are quite right, I meant no disrespect by forgetting the Iraqis that have died. I defy you to find 43,000 victims per year. In fact that would be not enough since assuming Hussein would have continued his pattern for another 20 years you’ll have to account for 860,000 victims over whatever period it takes for this war to end.

Not futile, not “a waste”, our soldiers are HEROES, or nation should be proud to have helped so many people.

Even if you use the most conservative estimate of 300,000 that is 10,000 per year. So 40,000 rescued and counting! If he was as good at hiding his victims as he was with hiding his WMDs we may never know.

Hey RRRRYan, I do assume that you’re spearheading the conservative effort to get us into Sudan and stop the genocide there. It’s funny but the silence from the conservatives on that issue is almost deafening. “Never again”

Siobahn,

I don’t know if I find that funny or not. I wish it was funny.

RRRyan,

No problem with a flat tax as long as everyone pays it and there are no loopholes to wiggle out of. Never happen though, the big business White House would never do that to their wealthy friends.

I think that the memorial to Bush’s War should be a used car bomb.

Stephen, you seem to have missed one of the points of my post. The wealthy so much more in taxes than the average American it would be hard to make a change that wouldn’t benefit them.

Again: http://www.chrisvschris.com/wp/the-truth-about-taxes

Sorry, make that “oF their net worth.” Adam do we get a 2-hour rule?

Be sure to sock it to all of those lazy-ass bastards working two minimum wage jobs with no benefits. Yeah, those poor people have it really good when it comes to taxes, but they have it pretty shitty when it comes to housing, health care, decent schools, safe neighborhoods or the possibility of retirement.

Ryan, you should be embarrassed to call yourself a Christian. Seriously.

Getting back to war, I’ve never heard a better short definition than the one that opened one of the episodes of Jacob Bronowski’s Ascent of Man:

War is organized theft.

And if you’ve never seen this series, filmed in the 70s, I just found to my delight that it’s available on DVD - for a whacking price, but available. Check the Wikipedia article on the title. The cinematography in this series is outstanding.

That’s right, Murray. Bush did everything he knew to help them, such as bombing the Bejesus out of the little towel-headed buggers. Well, to be honest, I don’t know if he knew to do that, but it’s what Mr. Cheney said he should do.

I’m sure that Bush is waiting for Iraq to come out and apologize for all the trouble they have caused him and his family. After all, they got in the way of his shot, um, wait, wrong story. No problem, I am sure it still applies.

siobhan, are you again pretending to be an expert on what is and is not “Christian”?

“sock it to all of those lazy-ass bastards”?

yes, we definitely have a different perspective on fairness. Being Christian is about charity, not setting up laws that require one to pay for someone else’s problems. That would be socialism. Not the same thing. I don’t want my money to go to the government on behalf of the “poor”. I’d rather give it directly to them however I choose. You keep making very inaccurate assumptions about my generosity. I give away a LOT of money. I also pay some of “those lazy-ass bastards” who are neither lazy nor bastards. I would give away more and pay more if the government were not taking so much of my money.

The tax brackets are unfair and anti-capitalistic. The penalty for making more money is that you get to give more of it to a bunch of fruitcakes that have managed to require social security for everyone in the country cept themselves who can “opt-out”. Then proceed to waste the money on pet projects instead of investing it in a way that it will actually work as a “social security”.

I’m not so optimistic to expect this to change. People are far too ignorant, making statements like “sock it to all of those lazy-ass bastards” and such. The “poor” would never let it happen because they cannot see the positive for themselves, ie. Higher pay rates. They think “rich” people are greedy hoarders, and many are, but it’s not the place of government to regulate that.

What I really would like is to see the misinformation that “Bush’s tax cuts for the rich” only benefit the rich or are unfair would be squelched. So I’ll say it again, it would take a couple dozen more of “Bush’s tax cuts for the rich” to get anywhere near fair. So stop whining.

I am assuming the “fruitcakes” you are talking about is the government? Why shouldn’t they want to opt out? They get their yearly salary for the rest of their lives. Why fix SS when they don’t need to deal with it. I personally would like to see THEIR tax returns, I’m betting the reason you pay so much is that they aren’t paying their fair share.
I, myself, am not rich so I can’t speak to what taxes you pay. I can tell you that my dad (self-employed) pays his taxes twice, seems like a bum deal to me. I highly doubt that anyone is paying over 50% of their income to taxes. You can’t say that what someone pays is unfair without looking at what they make. The example in your link above didn’t mention the salary of the people having lunch. If the 1% in the story makes 100 times more money, why not have them chip in more?
As to charity, I believe the commandment it to love our neighbor, not love the neighbor that we think deserves it. I give where and what I can given my income. I try to give to groups I think will distribute as fairly as possible.
I am curious to what you think it means in Acts when it talks about the early christians having “all things in common”?

Rummy is blaming the media:
“Rumsfeld acknowledged Tuesday the potential for civil war in Iraq but slammed the media for ‘exaggerated’ reports about the security situation following recent violence between religious factions,” CNN.com reports. “Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon that he thought the news coverage since the February 22 bombing of a revered Shiite shrine in Iraq had been filled with inaccurate information that would inflame the situation there.”

Well, you know the fairness really comes in when you consider how much someone works or even more so when you consider what they expect. This is an irremediable problem, but I don’t mind at all paying part of your share of the “service fee”. I mind paying for the lazy people who don’t do SQUAT but sit around and watch Oprah and then EXPECT (yes it really boils down to their attitude) me to pay the bill when they get pregnant, or lose their home, or need therapy.

I know “someone” who had an office complex that needed to have all of the wood siding retreated. They decided to go find someone who would like to make $4000 for two weeks of work. They knew several very healthy individuals who happened to be currently “down on their luck”. Every one of them refused the job. You know who ended up doing it? A Hispanic guy who already had a full time job and was living in a tiny little apartment with a large family. He accepted the job without even hearing the details! He did a great job too. Ended up putting in about 20 hours. He still got the $4000. So with that increase in income he now gets the “responsibility” of paying for those other folk’s service fees?

I don’t work especially hard, though my wife thinks I’m a workaholic. I happen to have come up with a unique product that makes very good money. The first thing I did was bring as many folks as I could into the venture with me and they are all doing very well. So I won’t make any claims about 100 hour weeks because it would not be true. My gripe is grounded on the expectations and entitlement issues that our system creates. If someone is forced to give then there is no virtue in the giving. That is what I do not agree with.

It is my responsibility as a Christian to support the poor and widows. When the law of the land requires it then it no longer has to do with love or faith or God or charity or virtue. It simply has to do with fear. Fear of punishment if I fail to comply. Not a good system. It is socialism and ultimately breeds atheism. Once true virtue becomes untested and the acts of virtue severely limited the society as a whole will ultimately fail to seek it and the One from whom it comes.

I think most “rich” folks are busy bees. Look at Bill Gates, you’d think he’d retire wouldn’t you? Some folks are happy to “get by” and don’t do much to expand. I would say they still have good work ethic, just not much ambition. I think it’s the handout programs and the people who “benefit” from them that destroys work ethic. I think we are in agreement.

BTW, my son Elijah was born yesterday morning!!!