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	<title>Comments on: Comin&#8217; Out Swinging&#8230;</title>
	<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/</link>
	<description>America's favorite blog</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13370</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2006 08:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13370</guid>
					<description>Can anyone tell me how to locate the "vraiment" heavy comment?  A friend told me it was funny and I speak French.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone tell me how to locate the &#8220;vraiment&#8221; heavy comment?  A friend told me it was funny and I speak French.  Thanks!
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		<title>by: Pete IVDL</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13117</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13117</guid>
					<description>Hedera, that is so &lt;b&gt;cool&lt;/b&gt;! You saw a raptor &lt;i&gt;talk&lt;/i&gt;? Excellent! I've always wanted to go to Bend (mainly 'cause of it being the location of 'Micro Cornucopia' in the 80's), now I've got another reason. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hedera, that is so <b>cool</b>! You saw a raptor <i>talk</i>? Excellent! I&#8217;ve always wanted to go to Bend (mainly &#8217;cause of it being the location of &#8216;Micro Cornucopia&#8217; in the 80&#8217;s), now I&#8217;ve got another reason. <img src='http://fanaticalapathy.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>by: A Alexander Stella</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13091</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13091</guid>
					<description>okay, let's say you'd like to learn about an actual political campaign to impeach the president ...

ah, none of this noise about a yearning for somebody to go do it ...

in addition, you'd like to learn about a game plan to snag Osama ...

if all the above meets with your approval, then click, somehow, on the following hyperlink:

http://hewhoisknownassefton.blogspot.com/2006/01/osama-and-our-president-dumass-botch_20.html 

and get ready for a ride on a wild blog

toodles
.......\
.he who is known as sefton

oh, yes, the above was copied and then pasted by an actual human being, who visited your "Fanatical Apathy" blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>okay, let&#8217;s say you&#8217;d like to learn about an actual political campaign to impeach the president &#8230;</p>
<p>ah, none of this noise about a yearning for somebody to go do it &#8230;</p>
<p>in addition, you&#8217;d like to learn about a game plan to snag Osama &#8230;</p>
<p>if all the above meets with your approval, then click, somehow, on the following hyperlink:</p>
<p><a href="http://hewhoisknownassefton.blogspot.com/2006/01/osama-and-our-president-dumass-botch_20.html" rel="nofollow">http://hewhoisknownassefton.blogspot.com/2006/01/osama-and-our-preside nt-dumass-botch_20.html</a> </p>
<p>and get ready for a ride on a wild blog</p>
<p>toodles<br />
&#8230;&#8230;.\<br />
.he who is known as sefton</p>
<p>oh, yes, the above was copied and then pasted by an actual human being, who visited your &#8220;Fanatical Apathy&#8221; blog.
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		<title>by: hedera</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13060</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13060</guid>
					<description>Raptor photos, great!  (And great raptor photos, too...)  I'll bookmark that site, siobhan.  We visit raptor exhibits wherever we travel, they have a great one at the High Desert Museum in Bend, and we saw a wonderful raptor talk (complete with bald eagle on speaker's wrist, and a small screech owl that sits around the lobby and keeps the receptionist company) at the Raptor Center on the Alaska coast (where was that?  Ketchikan?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raptor photos, great!  (And great raptor photos, too&#8230;)  I&#8217;ll bookmark that site, siobhan.  We visit raptor exhibits wherever we travel, they have a great one at the High Desert Museum in Bend, and we saw a wonderful raptor talk (complete with bald eagle on speaker&#8217;s wrist, and a small screech owl that sits around the lobby and keeps the receptionist company) at the Raptor Center on the Alaska coast (where was that?  Ketchikan?)
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		<title>by: Murray</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13051</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13051</guid>
					<description>siobhan,

Hot damn! I spent several years working as the head of Hueston Wood's Raptor Rehabilitation Center in Oxford, Ohio. We dealt with about 40 raptors a year and even today I have a Screech Owl on an educational permit that I take to schools and will show off at Felberpalooza. 

If you come out for the party, the ridge to our west (Tussey Mountain) is THE major fly way for Golden Eagles on the east coast, although they come through later in the season. However in Sept. we should be seeing Broad Wings and of course there are always Red Tails, Shoulders, and K-birds. Speaking of which, my very good friend Dr. John Smallwood (world expert on Kestrels, Beatles knowledge and former editor of the Wilson Journal) will be here. Hope you can make it too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>siobhan,</p>
<p>Hot damn! I spent several years working as the head of Hueston Wood&#8217;s Raptor Rehabilitation Center in Oxford, Ohio. We dealt with about 40 raptors a year and even today I have a Screech Owl on an educational permit that I take to schools and will show off at Felberpalooza. </p>
<p>If you come out for the party, the ridge to our west (Tussey Mountain) is THE major fly way for Golden Eagles on the east coast, although they come through later in the season. However in Sept. we should be seeing Broad Wings and of course there are always Red Tails, Shoulders, and K-birds. Speaking of which, my very good friend Dr. John Smallwood (world expert on Kestrels, Beatles knowledge and former editor of the Wilson Journal) will be here. Hope you can make it too.
</p>
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		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13041</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13041</guid>
					<description>Ann,

Those bastards are incapable of being embarrassed.  Banana Republicans just keep on keeping on until something or someone slaps the living shit out of them (figuratively speaking here, of course - unelecting the schmucks and, by extension, their appointees is our only recourse in modern America.  Civil disobedience has apparently ceased to be a viable option, ecoterrorism is our number domestic threat according to the FBI, and God help you if you're a Quaker).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann,</p>
<p>Those bastards are incapable of being embarrassed.  Banana Republicans just keep on keeping on until something or someone slaps the living shit out of them (figuratively speaking here, of course - unelecting the schmucks and, by extension, their appointees is our only recourse in modern America.  Civil disobedience has apparently ceased to be a viable option, ecoterrorism is our number domestic threat according to the FBI, and God help you if you&#8217;re a Quaker).
</p>
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		<title>by: siobhan</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13025</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13025</guid>
					<description>Ann, 'tis odd.  Worked this morning, but for some reason it won't let you get there from here.  Must be something to do with all of this treasonous talk or something.  If you really want to see them, copy the URL and paste it into a new window.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann, &#8217;tis odd.  Worked this morning, but for some reason it won&#8217;t let you get there from here.  Must be something to do with all of this treasonous talk or something.  If you really want to see them, copy the URL and paste it into a new window.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ann</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13024</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13024</guid>
					<description>I can't access the links to Siobhan's pictures, but Lt. Brad Shaw (I always thought it was Bradshaw) cracked me up. Ah, good ol' Morse Science High...
Any chance that Gen. Hayden is thoroughly embarrassed today?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t access the links to Siobhan&#8217;s pictures, but Lt. Brad Shaw (I always thought it was Bradshaw) cracked me up. Ah, good ol&#8217; Morse Science High&#8230;<br />
Any chance that Gen. Hayden is thoroughly embarrassed today?
</p>
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		<title>by: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13023</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13023</guid>
					<description>Ladies and Gentlemen, for you reading pleasure, the wording of the Fourth Amendment follows:
 “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

So…”and believe me, if there’s any amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it’s the Fourth.”  And yet didn’t he say there was no probable cause statement in the Fourth Amendment?  (sorry I would have underlined it, but I don't know how.  Look hard, you will see it.)  Does nobody actually read these things? Shouldn’t a statement like that, obviously false, be pointed out? 
Oh wait, I got the link to the Constitution from Google.  No wonder it was wrong…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ladies and Gentlemen, for you reading pleasure, the wording of the Fourth Amendment follows:<br />
 “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”</p>
<p>So…”and believe me, if there’s any amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it’s the Fourth.”  And yet didn’t he say there was no probable cause statement in the Fourth Amendment?  (sorry I would have underlined it, but I don&#8217;t know how.  Look hard, you will see it.)  Does nobody actually read these things? Shouldn’t a statement like that, obviously false, be pointed out?<br />
Oh wait, I got the link to the Constitution from Google.  No wonder it was wrong…
</p>
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		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13021</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2006/01/23/comin-out-swinging/#comment-13021</guid>
					<description>Terrific pics, Siobahn.  Thanks, Cooper, for getting Siobahn's post-daguerrotype hackles up.  Otherwise, I would never have gotten to see these gems of the photographer's art.

Wandering back to the topic, and being the last cyberdog on the block to be dipped for ticks, blogwise, here, for anyone who missed it, is an excerpt from the Good General at NSA's understanding of the Fourth Amendment (kind of like James Baker's understanding of the Equal Protection Clause, which the Supreme Court bought), an understanding to which "Any Angle Which Produces the Desired Interpretation" Alito
likely subscibes (damn, is that a sentence or what?):

General "What's this fucking constitution thing you keep talking about?" Hayden today:


QUESTION: Jonathan Landay with Knight Ridder. I'd like to stay on the same issue, and that had to do with the standard by which you use to target your wiretaps. I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an American's right against unlawful searches and seizures. Do you use -- 

GEN. HAYDEN: No, actually -- the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure. 

QUESTION: But the -- 

GEN. HAYDEN: That's what it says. 

QUESTION: But the measure is probable cause, I believe. 

GEN. HAYDEN: The amendment says unreasonable search and seizure. 

QUESTION: But does it not say probable -- 

GEN. HAYDEN: No. The amendment says -- 

QUESTION: The court standard, the legal standard -- 

GEN. HAYDEN: -- unreasonable search and seizure. 

QUESTION: The legal standard is probable cause, General. You used the terms just a few minutes ago, "We reasonably believe." And a FISA court, my understanding is, would not give you a warrant if you went before them and say "we reasonably believe"; you have to go to the FISA court, or the attorney general has to go to the FISA court and say, "we have probable cause." 

And so what many people believe -- and I'd like you to respond to this -- is that what you've actually done is crafted a detour around the FISA court by creating a new standard of "reasonably believe" in place of probable cause because the FISA court will not give you a warrant based on reasonable belief, you have to show probable cause. Could you respond to that, please? 

GEN. HAYDEN: Sure. I didn't craft the authorization. I am responding to a lawful order. All right? The attorney general has averred to the lawfulness of the order. 

Just to be very clear -- and believe me, if there's any amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it's the Fourth. And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. And so what you've raised to me -- and I'm not a lawyer, and don't want to become one -- what you've raised to me is, in terms of quoting the Fourth Amendment, is an issue of the Constitution. The constitutional standard is "reasonable." And we believe -- I am convinced that we are lawful because what it is we're doing is reasonable. 

(Copped from Atrios)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific pics, Siobahn.  Thanks, Cooper, for getting Siobahn&#8217;s post-daguerrotype hackles up.  Otherwise, I would never have gotten to see these gems of the photographer&#8217;s art.</p>
<p>Wandering back to the topic, and being the last cyberdog on the block to be dipped for ticks, blogwise, here, for anyone who missed it, is an excerpt from the Good General at NSA&#8217;s understanding of the Fourth Amendment (kind of like James Baker&#8217;s understanding of the Equal Protection Clause, which the Supreme Court bought), an understanding to which &#8220;Any Angle Which Produces the Desired Interpretation&#8221; Alito<br />
likely subscibes (damn, is that a sentence or what?):</p>
<p>General &#8220;What&#8217;s this fucking constitution thing you keep talking about?&#8221; Hayden today:</p>
<p>QUESTION: Jonathan Landay with Knight Ridder. I&#8217;d like to stay on the same issue, and that had to do with the standard by which you use to target your wiretaps. I&#8217;m no lawyer, but my understanding is that the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an American&#8217;s right against unlawful searches and seizures. Do you use &#8212; </p>
<p>GEN. HAYDEN: No, actually &#8212; the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure. </p>
<p>QUESTION: But the &#8212; </p>
<p>GEN. HAYDEN: That&#8217;s what it says. </p>
<p>QUESTION: But the measure is probable cause, I believe. </p>
<p>GEN. HAYDEN: The amendment says unreasonable search and seizure. </p>
<p>QUESTION: But does it not say probable &#8212; </p>
<p>GEN. HAYDEN: No. The amendment says &#8212; </p>
<p>QUESTION: The court standard, the legal standard &#8212; </p>
<p>GEN. HAYDEN: &#8212; unreasonable search and seizure. </p>
<p>QUESTION: The legal standard is probable cause, General. You used the terms just a few minutes ago, &#8220;We reasonably believe.&#8221; And a FISA court, my understanding is, would not give you a warrant if you went before them and say &#8220;we reasonably believe&#8221;; you have to go to the FISA court, or the attorney general has to go to the FISA court and say, &#8220;we have probable cause.&#8221; </p>
<p>And so what many people believe &#8212; and I&#8217;d like you to respond to this &#8212; is that what you&#8217;ve actually done is crafted a detour around the FISA court by creating a new standard of &#8220;reasonably believe&#8221; in place of probable cause because the FISA court will not give you a warrant based on reasonable belief, you have to show probable cause. Could you respond to that, please? </p>
<p>GEN. HAYDEN: Sure. I didn&#8217;t craft the authorization. I am responding to a lawful order. All right? The attorney general has averred to the lawfulness of the order. </p>
<p>Just to be very clear &#8212; and believe me, if there&#8217;s any amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it&#8217;s the Fourth. And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. And so what you&#8217;ve raised to me &#8212; and I&#8217;m not a lawyer, and don&#8217;t want to become one &#8212; what you&#8217;ve raised to me is, in terms of quoting the Fourth Amendment, is an issue of the Constitution. The constitutional standard is &#8220;reasonable.&#8221; And we believe &#8212; I am convinced that we are lawful because what it is we&#8217;re doing is reasonable. </p>
<p>(Copped from Atrios)
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