On a day when Osama bin Laden proved that he just doesn’t get it (great, Osama. Now we have to stay in Iraq. Thanks a million), there’s another story developing under the highly-invasive radar:
SAN JOSE, Calif. — The Bush administration, seeking to revive an online pornography law struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court, has subpoenaed Google Inc. for details on what its users have been looking for through its popular search engine.
Google has refused to comply with the subpoena, issued last year, for a broad range of material from its databases, including a request for 1 million random Web addresses and records of all Google searches from any one-week period, lawyers for the U.S. Justice Department said in papers filed Wednesday in federal court in San Jose.
…The government contends it needs the data to determine how often pornography shows up in online searches as part of an effort to revive an Internet child protection law that was struck down two years ago by the U.S. Supreme Court on free-speech grounds.
The 1998 Child Online Protection Act would have required adults to use access codes or other ways of registering before they could see objectionable material online, and it would have punished violators with fines up to $50,000 or jail time. The high court ruled that technology such as filtering software may better protect children.
Wow! There’s so much going on here, it’s hard to choose where to start. Okay, how about with this:

I just wanted to get that out of the way. This pin-up (by Olivia de Berardinis) now makes Fanatical Apathy a site that would require you to enter a code or credit card number in order to visit. No, I’m not kidding. You can read the text of the legislation here. It violates the “or a lewd exhibition of the genitals or post-pubescent female breast” clause. There’s no doubt that Ms. de Berardinis means to be lewd, and no doubt that I do as well, and no doubt that the breast in question is “post-pubescent.”
Okay, so now that I’ve made this site illegal in the future… let’s move on. [By the way, a great place to make your site tastefully illegal in the future, which I heartily recommend, is thepinupfiles.com. I found it… through Google.]
So the Supreme Court struck this law down in 1998. But that was two appointments ago. The new court will have two fewer post-pubescent female breasts. And two more boobs. So the Bush administration definitely has a shot here.
But why subpoena Google? My guess is that the government wants to make its case by reading us a list of all the disgusting, licentious things that people typed into a Google window over the course of a week. Because that would prove that people look for dirty stuff on the web. Which presumably means that any child could find him or herself looking at online filth just by innocently typing “hot sexy naked dwarves drowning in semen” into a Google window. It probably happens all the time, for school projects and whatnot, and just think about what that seemingly innocuous search could lead to!
I guess the least-interesting and most-important thing here is that the government wants to view information about our online habits, and they’re not even trying to prosecute a crime. They just want to shore up their case for re-passing that bill that the Supreme Court already called, ironically, a violation of privacy.
As I said, it might be the most important part, but it gives me no further opportunities to make lewd jokes or offer up artfully-exposed B-cups, so I won’t dwell on it. Scroll back up and goggle and the googled pin-up again. And then add one to your own 40 acres of web space. Knowing that you’re a criminal in the future just makes it more fun, doesn’t it?





85 comments
Dug Steen
January 19, 2006 at 4:42 pm
1They need to subpoena Google in order to prove that people use the Internet for porn? Have they already finished that “Presumed location of ursine defecation” report?
Ann
January 19, 2006 at 5:00 pm
2That’s a creepy-looking cat. I’m just sayin’.
Kevin
January 19, 2006 at 5:20 pm
3Shouldn’t that be “will have two FEWER post-pubescent female breasts”?
Pete IVDL
January 19, 2006 at 5:39 pm
4Heeeere, titty, titty… Ann, who’s looking at the cat? I didn’t even notice the (decidedly spinally-deficient microcephalic) moggie until you mentioned it.
Sounds like the Repubs have been trying to decipher their WWJD (What We Justify as Democracy) wristbands again at one of their all-night evangelical milkathons again.
Adam, those lovable kids doing research for their projects will come up empty-handed - ‘hot sexy naked dwarves drowning in semen’ only comes up with gay porn, Indonesian road accidents, and some North Plainfield website. Not that I’d ever use Google to look for anything outside of particle physics, news of the world, and whitehouse.org.
Hey, maybe the repubs can legislate to remove the letters E, S, and X from keyboards sold to minors! Problem solved!
Pete IVDL
January 19, 2006 at 5:41 pm
5Kevin - semantically, you are correct. But Adam has possibly written more deeply than we suspect - have you seen the physiques of the new old dudes? They got man-titties, mate. Hairy ones, but they got ‘em… (shudder)
ginny
January 19, 2006 at 6:15 pm
6Very good. Unfortunately, due to the robust anti-kitty filters here at work, my husband and I will have to enjoy this post together later, in the illusory privacy of our home.
By the way, they don’t just hate us for our provisional and highly compromised freedom - they also hate us for our innovative and very nearly legal advance in indentured servitude. Which may explain the hoo-ha over that dirty P-word Ms. Clinton uttered the other day.
It hurts the most when you cut close to the bone, I always say.
Jan Theodore Galkowski
January 19, 2006 at 6:32 pm
7hah! beat you to it, Adam (or should i address you formally, as Mr Fanatical?). of course, mine is a sculpture already in public view, at Temple University.
madbard
January 19, 2006 at 7:17 pm
8don’t they realize they can just google google for the results. besides, we already know the outcome: google robots!
Maximum Bob
January 19, 2006 at 7:18 pm
9Remember, this is the government that believes above all in personal freedom. Not yours, but still.
Adam Felber
January 19, 2006 at 7:39 pm
10I’m going to invoke the, uh, 5 hour rule. “Fewer” also sounds better.
Thanks, Kevin!
nick
January 19, 2006 at 7:44 pm
11Adam, I don’t think you are too adept at looking for filthy pictures on the internets. A google image search for “hot sexy naked dwarves drowning in semen” turns up nothing.
“Suggestions:
* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.
* Try fewer keywords.”
Also, this search was done with google’s safe search feature off So. yeah. It is easy to look at nudity on line but it is also easy to not look at nudity online.
I recommend Lenny Bruce’s autobiography (How to Talk Dirty and Influence People) for anyone who wants to get scared about obscenity laws.
But, let’s put all that aside for now. The point is, the Bush Administration has proven over time that if anyone can be trusted with “records of all Google searches from any one-week period” it is them.
siobhan
January 19, 2006 at 8:13 pm
12I’m just wondering if your Google search will give the team at Abu Ghraib ideas about “semen-boarding” prisoners now.
ice weasel
January 19, 2006 at 9:47 pm
13Ann, I’m with you on the cat.
Siobhan, “semen-boarding”? Oh my, I thought spending two years in the “adult industry” would put in the position of having heard it all. Well, today I heard a new one.
Doug really ties this in as small a package as possible. Only the clods in this administration would have us believe they need to subpoena Google records to determine if people are looking for porn the net.
At least the justive department is working hard on something. Not those troublesome Abramoff allegations. Or the 9/11 commission. Or the Plame investigation. Or…
Harold
January 19, 2006 at 9:50 pm
14Oh, man, check it out! You can see her PUSSY!
tim
January 19, 2006 at 10:04 pm
15Speaking as a person whose web site was reached by people searching for nude photos of Merlin Olsen (seriously!), I welcome this new inquiry. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with you people? Merlin Olsen? Dan Haggerty, maybe, but never Merlin.
Harold
January 19, 2006 at 10:11 pm
16Melin Olsen nude? Tim, how did your website show up in a search for Merlin Olsen nude? Maybe you used the words “Merlin” and “Olsen” and “nude” on the same page somewhere. I mean, otherwise, you’d have to have the phrase “Merlin Olsen nude” somewhere on the page for Google to direct searches for “Merlin Olsen nude” to your site. And who would ever use a phrase like “Merlin Olsen nude” on their site?
Siobhan
January 19, 2006 at 10:55 pm
17I.Weasel, those other investigations cost money. The Google search is free. (Well, at least until you figure the cost of personnel-hours just to wade through the 2,030,000 hits you get when you Google “people using google to look for porn on the internet”)
Also, it’s cheaper and faster to investigate something you’re familiar with. Don’t have to waste time on a learning curve and all…
cooper
January 19, 2006 at 11:11 pm
18Well, this post has been up for about 6 hours now and the “Dumbyas” haven’t hacked in and raised the “John Ashhole Honorary Blue Curtain of Decency” yet. This Administration has definitely been off its game lately.
Murray
January 19, 2006 at 11:15 pm
19ADAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’M SHOCKED, I’M APPALLED. I NEVER THOUGHT THAT I’D BE SUBJECTED TO THIS SHOCKING, APPALLING OBSENITY.
I AM TERMINATING MY SUBSCRIPTION IMMEDIATELY AND DEMAND MY FULL REFUND. I had a life time subscription; I figure you owe me $6,543. So pay up sucker! I want greenbacks! I want it now!!!!
I was subbing in middle school yesterday (they called to say I had keyboard, I thought, great, piano, how hard can that be?) Turns out it was computer class. (Who knew?) So naturally I had them google “hot sexy naked dwarves drowning in semen” (they’re 12, what do they know?) but to narrow it down I added “while being eaten by sharks, hit by lightning, in the back yard, when grilling Rocky Mountain Oysters” This narrowed it down to less than 100,000 (Nick you need to use GOOGLE not gooooogle).
Those 12 year olds surprised me. Who would have guesses they could have come up with so much data? This was also one of the few classes I was able to hold their attention for more than a few attoseconds.
Now we are probably all on NSA’s hit list and I will be spending Labor Day incarcerated with a bunch of pre(?)pubescent kids. I hope you-all have a good time at Felberpalooza with out me.
Goddammn this administration sucks!
Matt
January 19, 2006 at 11:34 pm
20Congrats to the FA readership to waiting until comment # 14 before going for the pussy joke.
By the way, “The Decidedly Spinally-Deficient Microcephalic Kitties” would be a good name for a rock band, Pete IVDL
another David
January 19, 2006 at 11:48 pm
21How about we start an e-mail chain letter asking all our friends to voluntarily report the last search they did to the whitehouse.gov website. Here’s mine:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bush+is+an+idiot&btnG=Google+Sear ch
Maybe this is just advance cover for the next scandal, where congressional staffers have been visiting too many porn sites, and they will need to claim it was “research” when it hits the papers…
cooper
January 19, 2006 at 11:54 pm
22While your (and your children’s/grandchildren’s/ad infinatum) tax dollars are being thrown down the rat holes of Iraq, War on Terrorism, The Halliburton Relief Fund, Hellfires to Pakistan, etc., at least one sector of your government has been hitting home runs this week - NASA. Samples from the comet Wild 2 landed safely on Sunday aboard the Stardust probe and the New Horizon spacecraft was successfully launched this afternoon, beginning its decade long trip to Pluto and beyond. At least those of us of the “Y” chromosome persuasion may find joy in such things.
Siobhan
January 20, 2006 at 12:46 am
23Cooper, some of us XX* types are ecstatic too. I miss the days when all the stories on NPR were about stuff like this. Oh well, we’ll be under 1400 days left in no time.
* That’s XX genetically, not in reference to posts 1-21.
Siobhan
January 20, 2006 at 12:51 am
24Oops, I meant 1100 days. And we are actually at 1096 (three years from tomorrow!), so I really gotta start fact checking before posting. And learn how to type.
Siobhan
January 20, 2006 at 1:33 am
25No more corrections after this… but three years from today according to the perverse east coast conspiracy at work on the time stamps here. But three years from tomorrow from here on the left coast.
Whatev.
Landis
January 20, 2006 at 3:08 am
26Yeah, three more years until President Rice….
Pete IVDL
January 20, 2006 at 4:17 am
27Yeah, they caught the return canister from Wild-2. Without it burning a see-through hole in their catcher’s mitt!
And New Horizons must be past the moon already, right? More fireworks than Chinese New Year under that one. Yeehah. All the goodies - high tech, space science, thousands of gallons of rocket fuel, more thrust than a horny rhinoceros on viagra, and no payoff for at least 10 years!
dee
January 20, 2006 at 9:44 am
28I bet “horny rhinoceros on viagra” makes the list.
Hiding from Homeland Security
January 20, 2006 at 9:49 am
29OK, I confess, I checked out “The Pinup Files.”
Adam, I think you picked the wrong pinup for this post. Ms. America is truly patriotic, and has that grown-up Coppertone girl look.
BTW, what would the enforcers of the Child Online Protection Act say about the Coppertone kid?
Sharon
January 20, 2006 at 11:01 am
30It’s true that NASA has hit a couple of home runs lately, but they’ve also struck out on one important count. A recent op-ed piece in the NY Times, titled “Scorched Earth”, by Robert L. Park, can be filed under the category “Ignorance is bliss, until it kills you.” It’s fairly short:
January 15, 2006
Op-Ed Contributor
Scorched Earth
By ROBERT L. PARK
College Park, Md.
NASA has quietly terminated the Deep Space Climate Observatory, citing “competing priorities.” The news media took little notice. Few Americans, after all, had even heard of the program. But the entire world may come to mourn its passing.
Earth is growing warmer. Even the most strident global-warming deniers have taken to saying that a little warming is a good thing. If the trend continues, however, it will have catastrophic consequences for life on this planet. Correctly identifying the cause could be the most important problem facing humanity.
Most scientists link global warming to unrestrained burning of fossil fuels, which shrouds Earth in a blanket of carbon dioxide, trapping the Sun’s energy. Others, backed by industries that spew pollutants into the atmosphere, insist that greenhouse emissions are not the problem. They prefer to attribute warming to natural variations in solar output. Scientists are skeptical, but they don’t deny the possibility. The issue cries out to be resolved.
Even in a world wracked by wars, battles are not fought over scientific disagreements. In science, nature is the sole arbiter. Disputes are resolved only by better experiments.
The better experiment when it comes to global warming was to be the climate observatory, situated in space at the neutral-gravity point between the Sun and Earth. Called Lagrange 1, or L1, this point is about one million miles from Earth. At L1, with a view of the full disk of the Sun in one direction, and a full sunlit Earth in the opposite, the observatory could continuously monitor Earth’s energy balance. It was given a poetic name, Triana, after Rodrigo de Triana, the sailor aboard Christopher Columbus’s ship who first sighted the New World.
Development began in November 1998 and it was ready for launching three years later. The cost was only about $100 million. For comparison, that is only one-thousandth the cost of the International Space Station, which serves no useful purpose.
Before Triana could be launched, however, there was a presidential election. Many of the industries favored by the new Bush White House were not anxious to have the cause of global warming pinned down. The launching was put on hold.
The disdain of the Bush White House for Triana goes much deeper than just a desire to avoid the truth about global warming. Triana began life in early 1998 as a brainchild of Al Gore, who was then the vice president. Mr. Gore, the story goes, woke up one morning wondering if it would be possible to beam a continuous image of the full Earth back from space to inspire people with the need to care for our planet. The 1972 portrait of the full Earth, taken from the Moon, had inspired millions with the fragile beauty of our blue planet. Why not beam the image live into classrooms, allowing students to view weather systems marching around the globe?
Scientists had dreamed of such an observatory for years. They hoped Mr. Gore’s influence would make it happen. Mr. Gore’s support would end up destroying it. Those who hated him, hated Triana. His dream of inspiring environmentalists and schoolchildren served only to trivialize the project. It was ridiculed as “Gore’s screen saver.”
Triana is terminated, but global warming is not. Someday, there will have to be an observatory at L1. Perhaps the most important lesson from our exploration of the solar system is that the most terrible place on Earth is a Garden of Eden compared to the best place anywhere else. We must find out how to keep it that way.
Robert L.Park, a professor of physics at the University of Maryland, is the author of “Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud.”
David
January 20, 2006 at 1:05 pm
31Wasn’t ersatz decency one of the hallmarks of imperial Victorian England?
Jan,
The statue is wonderful. My father the sculptor (Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts 1936), if he didn’t have advanced macular degeration and if he were up to a trip back to the city of his birth and the first 33 years of his life, would be enthralled by this work. I send his great admiration by proxy.
Sharon,
Sobering. What is there to say, besides these people are out of their gd minds . Talk about the quarterly bottom line as the only actual sacred text for these cephalo-rectally thrustititic bastards.
Pete IVDL
January 20, 2006 at 5:21 pm
32Sharon, thanks a lot. Now some more people will know that some scientific mumbo-jumbo rocketship thingummy won’t be there. What good is that? Don’t tell them anything, then they’ll believe anything.
On a serious note, it makes the Hubble decision (where NASA’s budget, part of which was allocated to maintenance on Hubble, was filleted by Bush to the point where the choice had to be made between keeping Hubble working, or just leaving it alone and thinking about the possibility of considering getting someone to begin discussing a committee to investigate the conception of drawing up plans to outline the possibility of conceptualising a replacement space telescope - and we’re not talking IRAS or Spitzer) seem like a kindergarten spat.
Maybe the price had something to do with it as well? It’s the old business problem - you need $100, but it sounds too cheap, so ask for $10,000 and if they’re not scared off, they’ll probably give you $250.
Talk about bizarre bazaar bidness science! It’d be as frustrating as hell if it wasn’t par for the course. I wonder if Pat Robertson’s EV-TV profits could be used to pay for scientific exploration? Oh, no, wait, that’s another group of people who don’t need to learn anything. If it’s not “solar fluctuations” it’s “God’s will”. If they had a brain between the lot of ‘em, they still couldn’t pour water out of a gumboot with the instructions on the sole.
Ann
January 20, 2006 at 5:43 pm
33Hiding:
I’ll admit that Ms. America has a certain admirable perkiness, but facially doesn’t she remind you just a disturbing little bit of Alfred E. Neuman? But maybe “What, me worry?” is the perfect motto for this administration (especially in light of the fascinating info on Triana).
I find the pinup files to be distressingly light on items of interest for your hetero female readers, Adam!
Hot Tub Tommy
January 20, 2006 at 6:50 pm
34Her face, Ann? Oh, yeah, her face. You may be right, but speaking for myself (and many of the red-blooded America guys out there), my eyes never went that high up on the artwork.
Adam Felber
January 20, 2006 at 7:02 pm
35True enough, Ann. Both about Ms. A.E. Neuman AND the male-less pinup files.
The fact is, you can’t break the (upcoming) law with some hunk in a speedo. You’ll need the Full Monty to be a criminal.
I’ve just done some googling (OH, the things I do for you, dear readers), and I have to report that the web is letting hetero women down in terms of readily-available male pinup art. Most of the stuff I stumbled onto was photographic, claimed to be for gay men, and looked… well, unartistic. Striaght women have kind of been, er, shafted in that department. Or, rather, they haven’t been. Or, um, uh, well…
I’m sure this is already the subject of many a thesis and term paper.
Still if you find an appropriately inappropriate link, feel free to post it here.
siobhan
January 20, 2006 at 7:40 pm
36I don’t think most straight women spend much time longing for greater availability of internet porn/pinups. Somehow, I suspect that if the demand were there, it would be filled. Just a hunch.
Murray
January 20, 2006 at 9:33 pm
37Perhaps this would be a more fitting picture to use. http://polisat.com/DailyPoliticalSatire-Commentary/du20y04m11d13-01.ht m
(Sorry about poking you in the eye with the picure of John)
cooper
January 20, 2006 at 9:37 pm
38“But maybe “What, me worry?” is the perfect motto for this administration.”
Ann, you may have hit on something here. My son’s psychologist has a picture on his wall of Dumbya with Alfred E. Neuman’s hair photoshopped onto his head. I tell you it really works.
hedera
January 21, 2006 at 2:06 am
39The Ms. America pinup is an inferior attempt to draw a Vargas nude. Take a look at some of the original Vargas drawings (they’re on the pinupfiles site); even his clothed girls are erotic. Adam’s pinup of Ms. de Berardinis is a much better effort, look at the perfectly clean lines and carefully executed detail (except for the weird cat). Ms. America is just not drawn very well.
Yes, David, the Victorians basically felt you could do anything at all, as long as you didn’t “do it in the street and frighten the horses”. Actual conduct was irrelevant, the appearance of “decency” was all that mattered. Talk about a whole society whose motto was, “Don’t get caught.” (Sound like anyone we know??)
I agree with siobhan that I don’t think straight women (of which I am one) spend a whole lot of time trolling the Internet for porn pinups.
Sharon, I had missed the whole Triana project, including its termination; I’m appalled but not surprised.
David
January 21, 2006 at 1:30 pm
40I’ve got one for you guys. Hanging in the post office in Clyde, Ohio, is a large relief oak carving which my father entered into a 1936 federal competition. It won, and he won a 90-day artist’s tour of Europe.
This oak carving is the pride of this post office (I got a letter from the postmaster a few years back). It is classic depression-era art, a woman seated holding a sheaf of wheat with a hand scythe. She has on a very supple skirt and no top. The sheaf of wheat covers one post-pubescent breast, but the other one (and a lovely one it is) is exposed.
Perhaps they can charge my 98-year-old father with contributing to the perversion of minors in Clyde for having dared to create this pornographic work, and maybe they can exhume whoever awarded the prize and try them for aiding in the destruction of America’s traditional virtuous social fabric. I certainly hope no pictures of the lobby of the post office, especially a close-up of this artwork, is on any postal service website.
Excuse my while I go pound my head against the wall for a while.
Sharon
January 21, 2006 at 4:09 pm
41It goes without saying (but I’ll say it anyway) that this fishing expedition for Google’s search requests is a smoke screen for the real pornography that’s taking place in the White House and the Congress right now. I went to law school, graduated less than ten years ago, and got A’s in the two Consitutional Law classes I took. I never took the bar exam or practiced, but I have to tell you all that this latest move by the so-called Justice Dept. is so overreaching that we don’t have a name for it.
And as for the theory of the “unitary executive”, I never heard of it until a couple of weeks ago. The White House and Justice claim that al this power was given to the POTUS by an act of Congress. Show me where in the Constitution it says that Congress can override the Constitutionally-defined separation of powers without a Constitutional amendment!
Ann
January 21, 2006 at 6:10 pm
42First football, and now leering comments about women’s breasts. Am I having a bad dream about my college years?
Hot Tub Tommy
January 21, 2006 at 8:35 pm
43Ann, yes. Now go back to sleep and dream about Men of Steel and the Land of the Pies. But smoke this first. Sweet dreams.
historyenne
January 22, 2006 at 12:09 am
44I actually wrote a paper in college about Playboy vs Playgirl, the differences in content and why Playboy so consistently outsells its counterpart. It was an interesting project. Exposing one post-pubescent breast in non-internet artwork has quite a history, however. European queens and aristocratic ladies were frequently painted with one breast exposed for no apparent reason other than that was the portrait style of the time. Of course, most of the royal porno portraits I’ve seen were of French queens, and we all know what the French are like, don’t we?
David
January 22, 2006 at 11:57 am
45Cooper,
See my populist apologia, with incidental remarks, on EID Parties ( a little additional excoriation here, Ann and Pete IVDL?)
cooper
January 22, 2006 at 4:15 pm
46David, or rather Mr. K to your students, perhaps. I found a site that alluded to your father’s carving, but no picture. Did a name ever get attached to art? Just curious, plus I needed a break for painting the hall, so I drilled deep into Google for a diversion. Back to work, so I can finish before the Big Game.
To all XX’s, scientific women are hugely attractive. Sharon, I love it when you talk about Lagrange Points. BTW, SOHO is already @L1. How do you reckon SOHO and Triana would have been kept from hitting each other, with L1 being unstable and all?
Pete IVDL
January 22, 2006 at 6:32 pm
47I bin thinkin’.
First, it was saving America from the Evill terrorists.
Then, it was saving the Free World from WMD.
Then, saving Iraqis from WMD.
In between, it’s saving everyone from pornography.
It’s a pity they can’t save us thinking people from the bunch of evangelators in the Whitehouse.
Sharon
January 22, 2006 at 10:50 pm
48I didn’t know there was already a satellite at L1. It seems kind of unlikely that two objects could happily co-exist there. Maybe there was an error in the story.
cooper, I’m an ex-software engineer now (see my blog at http://exsoftware.blogspot.com/2005/12/in-beginning.html for the long, windy explanation), but the best job I ever had was when I worked for Hughes-Danbury when they were fabricating the mirrors for the Chandra X-Ray Telescope. I really wanted to work for Starfleet, but being a sub-sub-sub-contractor to NASA was the closest I ever got.
David
January 22, 2006 at 11:08 pm
49Cooper,
First, a moment of quiet for the game today. One thing I really liked was the class both teams displayed at the end of the game. That speaks very highly for both the players and the two coaching staffs.
Second, Dad is actually my stepfather (who raised me, so he’s my dad), so it was Mr. D (Mr. P just didn’t sound so good). Actually, at the community college level, because it was an era when there was genuine respect from students of all political views, we would go directly to the discussion, with everyone taking their cue from me for when to speak. It was amazing (it was also a small community college).
My biological father was 52 when I was born, so he would be 115 if he were alive today. I don’t know when he died.
You found a site with a reference to my dad’s artwork? Wow! Got a link?
tribolumen
January 22, 2006 at 11:45 pm
50Sharon & Cooper,
Two objects (or more) could peacefully coexist in the Earth-Moon L1 point. Lagrange points are actually pretty roomy. The term “point” is something of a misnomer; in practice, something can be effectively “at a Lagrange point” even if it’s many miles from the nominal point. For instance, the Jupiter-Sun L4 and L5 points each are inhabited by hundreds of asteroids, all going about their little asteroid business and only occasionally smacking into one another.
Trust me, I’m a grad student…
Llelldorin
January 22, 2006 at 11:54 pm
51At a guess, there’s no reason that two satellites couldn’t “occupy” L1, in a real-world sense of the word “occupy.”
There’s no way that you can “sit” an an unstable equilibrium point—SOHO has to make orbital corrections to stay there, for example (remember, in the real world there are other, tiny forces besides the pulls of the earth and moon, and anything is enough to pull you off the L1 point). The key thing is to be close enough that the outward drift is slow enough that you can correct for it without undue fuel expenditure.
The e-folding time for L1 is 23 days–that is, if you’re 1cm from L1, in 23 days you’ll be 2.7cm away, and so forth. That’s slow enough that you can get away with being a reasonable distance away from L1 and still be “at L1″ some time later. (L3—the spot diametrically opposite the earth, is even better, with an e-folding time of 150 years.)
This is just a guess, mind you–I’m a grad student in applied math, and don’t generally launch anything into any orbit whatsoever (other than highly eccentric ones that intersect the earth’s surface).
cooper
January 23, 2006 at 12:02 am
52Well, the Panthers got their butts righteously beat tonight and that’s all I’m going say about football ’til next year.
cooper
January 23, 2006 at 12:12 am
53David, try this and scroll down to Clyde, Ohio.
http://www.wpamurals.com/ohio.html
Like I say, a mention but no photos.
cooper
January 23, 2006 at 12:21 am
54Llelldorin and tribolumen, thanks for the seminar. It did clear up the question I had. trib, L4 and L5 for Earth-Sun also is populated with asteroids, though L4 has many more than L5.
nigel
January 23, 2006 at 12:56 am
55since coop started it:
Yeaahhh!! Go Sea Chickens!!!
More on the politics of Lagrange points later perhaps…
Hot Tub Tommy
January 23, 2006 at 9:39 am
56What’s with all this pointing-headed scientific L1 bull piss. I thought this was a humor blog, dammit!
Rep Thomas Delay (R. TX)
Siobhan
January 23, 2006 at 10:16 am
57Oh, like L1 isn’t funny….
Emmarie
January 23, 2006 at 10:29 am
58I’m fascinated and I don’t even know what any of it means. That’s got to count for something.
cooper
January 23, 2006 at 11:17 am
59Emmarie, on the off chance that you may actually want to have a simplistic explanation about Lagrange points, see here.
http://physics.montana.edu/faculty/cornish/lagrange.html
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit, I always say. Oh, can we still write “bullshit” on the web, or will I be nailed Ex Post Factos in the future for that hideous offense? Aw hell, I’m feeling lucky, so let’s just let it stand. Can we still say hell…?
waterfowler
January 23, 2006 at 12:41 pm
60It seems to me that the difference between a libertarian and a lefty is who is in the white house…and some of us wingnuts are guilty of the same.
David
January 23, 2006 at 1:06 pm
61Cooper,
Thanks, blood.
Emmarie,
You took the words right off my keyboard. I would add that when I know a woman is writing on the Lagrange points, I find it sexy. I’m part of the total package crowd, which means the brighter the mind, the sexier the woman (and since my sweetie has red hair, we are talking about divine icing on the cake).
David
January 23, 2006 at 1:56 pm
62Cooper,
I had no idea any of this existed. Had never heard about the article. The whole family sends you our gratitude.
See Ohio website has been removed. Wonder if picture of Dad’s work with the exposed post-pubescent breast was the reason, maybe on a directive from John Ashcroft, or else just Ohio Republican hatred of all things FDR.
Would have been interesting to be able to see a picture on the website with the breast redacted. Don’t you just love GWB’s New Decency?
Femme
January 23, 2006 at 3:04 pm
63Cooper,
if you’d like to make your very own picture of Dumbya with Alfred E Newman’s hair or many other silly variations, check out http://www.ilfoglio.it/uploads/camillo/BuildabetterBush.htm for a little puerile fun.
It helps to diffuse the rage…
Harold
January 23, 2006 at 3:34 pm
64Wikipedia has a list of all the objects at the various Lagrange points.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrangian_points
Since this is the Wikipedia and is freely editable, take all information with a grain of salt.
Sharon
January 23, 2006 at 3:52 pm
65Thank you everyone for the physics lesson! I was an applied math major myself, but that was a very long time ago, and I did not stay in a field where I would be using that knowledge. (I got through senior year by the skin of my teeth, so it’s probably just as well that I became a software engineer.
)
Llelldorin
January 23, 2006 at 11:44 pm
66I just have to say that I love this site. It’s the only place I can think of where you could start with nekkid boobies and end up with Lagrange points.
Even reading the thread over again, I can hardly believe it =-)
cooper
January 24, 2006 at 12:40 am
67David, glad I could be of some minor asistance.
Femme, thanks for the web address. I can see hours of fun ahead.
John
January 24, 2006 at 4:38 pm
68Why doesn’t the Government simply put some of our bloated bureaucracy to work doing searches on Google and get the info first hand?
Pete IVDL
January 24, 2006 at 7:08 pm
69John, according to Bushie’s latest fuck up, sorry, faux pas, they are getting it first hand. Only problem is, it’s almost certainly illegal…
I love Lagrange points. Never been to one, but read ‘em silly. Thanks to those in the know to explain more stuff about them here - thanks guys! BTW, a great (ab)use of physics in general and Lagrange points in particular are in Peter F Hamilton’s books (The Neutronium Alchemist series). W.O.W. More physics than Julius Sumner Miller, more action than DC Comics, more aliens than the Mexican border, and more ghosts and spooks than the NSA. The only trouble is, after you’ve read it, no other Sci-Fi book comes close…
ginny
January 25, 2006 at 4:06 pm
70Whoa! I just returned here via a link from MSNBC.
Well done, everyone. The successful evolution in this thread from kitty pr0n via global warming to elementary orbital physics just goes ta show ya that we’re cooler (and geekier) than most other cul-de-sacs on the Infotainment Cyberhighway.
David
January 25, 2006 at 7:54 pm
71Kitty porn in orbit? Cool.
Murray
January 25, 2006 at 9:49 pm
72You guys realize that Lagrange points are only theoretical don’t you?
How do you know? I mean, who’s been there? You? Is it in the Bible? So how do you know it’s real? How much confidence can you place in something theoretical? How do you know that the satellites aren’t held in place by witchcraft? (How do you know that your computers aren’t Witchcraft?) I sure as hell don’t.
hedera
January 26, 2006 at 1:18 am
73I can’t resist it:
How do you know the planet Mars is not carried around by an angel?
(Actual quote from J. B. S. Haldane, the man who also said, after a little calculation on a bar napkin, that he would lay down his life for two brothers or eight first cousins.)
David
January 26, 2006 at 12:51 pm
74Hell, hedera, Helios hauls Old Sol across the heavens every day, and without the benefit of those illusory leftist Lagrange points. The only LaGrange is a college in Georgia.
So of course some sub-deity is responsible for toting Mars around, assuming Mars was permanently disabled when he got too close to one of his idiot wars.
Alaska Joes Spammy Fishing Trips
January 26, 2006 at 1:41 pm
75I like what you have done with your site, and can’t wait to see more.
Pete IVDL
January 27, 2006 at 5:33 pm
76Oh dear, Adam, it’s time to pick up the red BlogFone and get help. The dastardly blogsnotters have found a way around hashcash! Although I would love to go fishing with Joe in Alaska, or get free concert tickets, or both, I fear others may not. Plus, they’re blocking some of my witty and urbane posts, so only this dreck of mine gets through! (That’s my excuse and I’m stickin’ to it)
David
January 27, 2006 at 7:46 pm
77Pete IVDL,
Is that why I’m getting Japanese spam that includes a link for some kind of translation program? First have to reject the link to be able to delete the shit. Luckily I was getting only one a day, and they now seem to have given up (knock on wood).
Of course you are a furriner likely on the NSA priority list.
Emmarie
January 27, 2006 at 8:12 pm
78Cooper, I checked the link. Thanks. The explanation makes as much sense as it could given my knowledge level in these things.
hedera
January 31, 2006 at 12:56 am
79Pete’s right: WP-Hashcash is failing the site. Alaska Joe could, just could, be real; but there’s nothing real about vitamins.
The Red BlogFone (TM)
January 31, 2006 at 7:33 am
80Pete and hedera, I’m working on it…
(In the meantime, I have deleted the stuff about vitamins, but left Joe’s comment (slightly edited…ha ha!) so people know what what the references are about.)
- the namesake of Pete IVDL’s nightgown
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