[First of all, I want to say that I could spend the whole day down in the discussion thread for Tuesday’s entry. I’m very, very grateful that what might have been a rancorous screamfest (as is the WWW norm) is a far-reaching and respectful conversation. Pat yourselves on the back, and please, stay as long as you like. Now, as for MY back…]
All right, I’ve had it.
What’s “it?” you ask? What have I “had?” Good question.
And let me apologize in advance for the length of this. But there’ll be pudding for all afterwards.
The political component of the Iraq War debate is as inescapable and maddening as a top 10 single that refuses to leave your head. [For me, that single, currently, is Kanye West’s “Gold Digger.” Damn you, Kanye, you and your (extremely catchy) song.] It goes around and around. Along the way, you’re inevitably going to hear three things:
- Everybody thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction!
- The big-name Democrats voted for the war!
- Get down, girl, go ‘head, get down. [No, wait, that one’s Kanye. Dammit!]
I’ve quoted lots of Democratic leaders here, linked to Important Speeches and whatnot, but this morning I felt the need for more. I needed to find a place that had actually, rigorously documented the run-up to war and had made all the points, on the record, that seem to get obscured in the above fracas. Where, where could I find such a place?
It’s right here. Like the end of a sappy holiday special, I discovered that it was here all along.
So though I rarely link to myself (I’m pretty sure that the practice could lead to blindness), here’s a Fanatical Apathy Trip Through Time:
————–
September, ‘o2
[My apologies for the poorly-formatted archives.]
What’s really happening in Iraq? Felber knew one thing: he didn’t know.
What the hawks do not have, quite simply, is evidence. Not a single person who you’ve been reading or hearing railing against Iraq has a single shred of first-hand evidence that Iraq is amassing weapons of mass destruction, or if said programs are complete or nearing completion. Nor do they have any credible and specific second-hand information. Third-hand information is scarce as well. They can point to no photos, documents, or eyewitness reports that would indicate that Iraq didn’t abandon their illegal weapons programs a few years ago. Their opinions are loud and vociferous, but they quite simply do not know.
…At some point we all will find out the truth about Saddam’s Weapons of Mass Destruction, though it seems clear that this will happen after the war rather than before…
Wow! I must have been psychic, because everyone thought Saddam had WMD’s. At least, that’s what we’re hearing now.
—————
October, ‘02
The Congress voted for war! Right? Or did they pass a wimpy but supportive resolution?
It’s a resolution that shows a Congress that cares, a Congress that wants to exhaust all diplomatic options, a Congress that wants to work with the UN….
…but not a Congress that’s going to insist on any of those things. That would be impolite.
You’ll note that the resolution makes sure to say that Iraq has to comply with all relevant UN resolutions…. It just offers Bush a warning that he must make a bunch of “determinations to Congress…”
…The Resolution, as far as I can see, is simply Congress’ way of saying “Call us once in a while, ya big lug. We have feelings too y’know.”
As soon as Congress had had itself a good cry and headed home to take a nice long bubble bath, Bush, of course, immediately declared that “war may be inevitable” at this point.
No no no - they voted for the war. For the war. For the war. I must be misquoting myself or something.
————–
January 2003
If only we’d known that those Chalabi-boosted Iraqi expats were dishonest! If only…. oh, we did.
POWELL (murmuring): Oy.
ROVE: What was that?
POWELL: Um… I said “Boy.” As in, “Boy, I just can’t wait to see those photographs and documents that Mr. Alsayed promised us because, gosh will that be useful when Mr. El Baradei gets here.”
RUMSFELD: Nag, nag, nag.
ALSAYED: Yes, the documents and pictures are almost here. There has been a delay. See, my brother was stopped by the Republican Guard while transporting the evidence.
BUSH: No!
ALSAYED: Yes, he was. And they… they shot him many times, and his wife, and his baby. And then they, they beat him with canisters of the anthrax! And then they blew him to bits with the nuclear grenades!
[Gasps.]
BUSH: That poor man!
—————-
February 2003
It was time to gather allies! Why couldn’t they see what we were seeing? Just being difficult, it seems.
PUTIN: George, please be stopping with that. I have told you, we would like to be seeing some more of the inspections, or at least some evidence of weaponry or obstruction.
BUSH: Right. But the thing is, we’d really like to invade pretty soon.
PUTIN: I know. I wish I could help more. My people, though, my advisors…
BUSH: It’s just not fair, that’s all.
PUTIN: There there, George. Be looking on the bright side - tomorrow is your Mr. Powell’s big speech, no? Probably he will present enough evidence for us to justify the war. You have said there is much evidence, no?
BUSH: Yeah, about that… [inaudible]
Fortunately for the President, Powell’s presentation at the UN convinced the world:

And then, having made our case, we were on our way, all marching together:
So why, after several weeks of barroom shouting matches and watching and reading all the “debate” over the upcoming killapalooza in Iraq, have I not found any pro-war individuals who are willing to hear criticism of the Bush administration’s monumental diplomatic cock-ups as anything but unpatriotic, head-in-the-sand, lily-livered, Saddam-lovin’ subversion? Every call for the Bush administration to change its tone or patch up crumbling alliances or work with the U.N. is met with accusations of weakness or (more commonly) with all-too-successful attempts to turn the discussion to the topic of whether the speaker is aware of just how very bad Saddam really is.
[And here’s me, arguing in the Comments section:]I am fairly confident that I’m in the majority among the “anti-war” set: I believe that Saddam needs to be dealt with, and that there must be a credible threat of force. I’m not convinced that our timing is great, and I’m certain that the Bush administration has made potentially disastrous errors with its utter lack of diplomatic consideration.
We should not be in a position where we have to say “To hell with France and Germany - they’re not REALLY our allies.” We should not be in a position where European opinion polls are suddenly showing an overwhelming growth of anti-American sentiment (and if you look at the numbers, you’ll see that it IS very sudden). We cannot fight terrorism alone, and when world opinion shifts so precipitously, we’re in very, very real danger of losing the strong support of some of our allies. Because in the democracies, the strong counter-terrorist cooperation could start to evaporate with the next election.
Let’s put it this way: If Bush’s plan was to launch 25 nuclear missiles at Iraq tomorrow morning, you’d probably oppose it, I’m guessing. That would put you in the position where you found yourself both in favor of stopping Saddam and convinced that the President’s strategy was completely wrongheaded.
That’s where I am. That’s where the majority of rational “anti-war” Americans are. That’s what the debate should be about.
But it isn’t. Just like in the McCarthy era, the debate has been manipulated into a cartoonish either/or context.
So, there it is, right? I was a lone voice shouting in the wilderness, a man with uncommon acuity and perception, speaking truth to the powerful, right?
Nope. I was, and I remain, a silly comedy writer with more-or-less mainstream views. I was just parroting what a lot of the Democratic leadership was saying, what a lot of the country was saying, and repackaging it for (attempted) maximum Funny. That’s what I do.
What I don’t do is forget. Er, at least not to my recollection. Well, at least not when I have an electronic archives handy. Um, what was I saying?
Oh yeah: Everybody thought Saddam had weapons, the Democrats voted for the war, it wasn’t all about WMDs, if we weren’t planning it right then somebody should’ve spoken up, etc. Now, where’s my pudding? Didn’t somebody promise pudding?





37 comments
SeattleDan
December 29, 2005 at 6:22 pm
1Have some pudding, Adam. Who’s going to win the SuperBowl?
Murray
December 29, 2005 at 6:53 pm
2Well it’s about time someone set the record straight.
If I hadn’t just been told that Bush never lies, I’d think that he was trying to mislead us into believing that he wasn’t trying to mislead us back then.
ice weasel
December 29, 2005 at 6:56 pm
3Adam, would I be cast as too demanding if I asked for creme brulee instead of pudding? I never really liked pudding much.
Oh, all that stuff, you’re right. But as I think you stated in the thread below, sadly, being right doesn’t tend to convince many people anymore.
Now I have to get back to planning the ‘06 war on christmas. We have to map out nativity scenes to blow up
(just kidding you humourless out there, yes you waterfouler)
Tiffany
December 29, 2005 at 7:01 pm
4Ice weasel, the creme bruleé isn’t too much to ask. Now the nativity scenes…..so long as they’re the scary novelty kind, I can agree with that.
dee
December 29, 2005 at 7:32 pm
5SSSSShhhh — we don’t want the Republicans to know about our amazing ability to travel back in time and “revise history” by altering the archived sources.
And speaking of pudding — a nice sweet potato pudding would be just lovely. If only SOMEcooperONE had a recipe!
hedera
December 29, 2005 at 8:22 pm
6It feels as if I did spend a whole day in yesterday’s discussion thread, but it was well worth the effort. It’s rare for me to find people on the “other side” of the religious divide, like Don and RRRyan, who are willing to discuss and listen instead of merely yelling epithets. Kudos to both of them, even if I don’t agree with them; and as usual to all the Felbernauts.
While you’re handing out dessert, I’ll join ice weasel with the creme brulee…
hedera
December 29, 2005 at 8:25 pm
7And Adam, here’s why you won’t get credit for all those great predictions:
“But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.” - Matthew 13:57 (KJV)
Murray
December 29, 2005 at 8:38 pm
8Just spent the last hour or so going back over the archives. A great way to remember what happened back then, and see what we all thought about it. (Back when Adam made up about 1/4 of the comments). Highly recommended.
cooper
December 29, 2005 at 9:28 pm
9dee, image for a minute the prototypical Southern Matriarcal Godhead of the family - the Grandmother. She is strong, she is confident, she is loving to her grandchildren each and every one, but if you tell a lie or break a promise to her, she will flat whup the Bejesus out of you with “The Fly Swatter” that is hanging on the kitchen wall. Now imagine, again, that you are a smart, well behaved and obedient child, but you have the good fortune of having a cousin who must push the envelope of courteous behavior as frequently and as surely as he must breathe. You see his bad choices, you see his punishment (it’s not pretty) and you remember that promise the whole room made to keep the family secrets. You were there in the room, you made the promise to her on her deathbed.
So I can’t give you the recipe, but… if you were to do a search on the Southern Living website, using “Sweet Potato Pudding - Phyllis Cannon” (she’s my Aunt and apparently stepped out of “the room” when we made the oath), you may wind up with the recipe, but you didn’t get it from me. I haven’t tried this - it may have been too long ago. Bon Appetit
David
December 29, 2005 at 9:31 pm
10Don’t know whether I was just lucky, or everything I’d read and observed leading up to Colin Powell’s UN prevarication (which apparently he found suspect but was assured was true, and which he delivered like a good soldier), but I did not believe that a word the man said was grounded in reality. I was stunned that the speech got such kudos, instead of the critical derision it deserved.
But then I was also stunned that senior White House officials would out a CIA agent and destroy a CIA front company and all the associated assets.
I am happy to report that nothing these people do has the power any longer to stun me.
Adam,
Nice touch with this summary, especially since I’m something of a latecomer to FA. However, in the words of Pink Floyd’s archetypal schulmeister, “You can’t have any pudding.”
Cooper,
Because of your integrity, neither Dee, other interested Felbernauts, nor I can have any of your grandmother’s secret recipe sweet potato pudding, at least not of our own making.
dee
December 29, 2005 at 9:54 pm
11Cooper, I understand and honor the position of Mamaw, so I won’t press you on the recipe. However, I googled a bit and found a site devoted to recipes using God’s Perfect Food:
The Lousiana Swet Potato Commission
And although it’s not creme brulé, this may be the consensus Fanatical Apathy Dessert
Sweet Potato Flan
1/2 cup sugar
1 (15-oz.) can sweet potatoes (yams), drained and mashed or 1 cup mashed sweet
potatoes
1/4 tsp ground cinnamon
1/8 tsp nutmeg
1 (12-oz.) can fat free evaporated milk
1 (14-oz.) can fat free sweetened condensed milk
3 eggs
2 egg whites
1 Tbl vanilla extract
Preheat oven to 325 degrees. Place sugar in a heavy saucepan. Cook over medium heat until sugar dissolves, stirring frequently, for about 5 minutes. Immediately pour into a 9-inch round cake pan coated with nonstick cooking spray, tipping pan quickly until caramelized sugar coats bottom of pan. In food processor or mixer, mix together sweet potatoes, cinnamon, nutmeg, evaporated milk, sweetened condensed milk, eggs, egg whites and vanilla until blended. Pour into prepared pan. Place in baking dish large enough to hold the 9-inch round pan and add hot water to dish until one inch deep. Carefully place in oven and bake for one hour to one hour 15 minutes or until knife inserted in center comes out clean. Remove pan from water, cool pan completely on a wire rack. Cover and refrigerate for at least 3 hours. Loosen edge of flan with a knife and invert flan on larger serving plate. Pour the remaining caramelized syrup over the flan. Makes 8 to 10 servings.
cooper
December 29, 2005 at 11:54 pm
12dee, Louisianna? Sweet Potato Commission? Excuse me? http://www.ncsweetpotatoes.com/recipe.htm Okay no pudding (or creme brulee’) recipes but how about Roast Sweet Potato Risotto, Sweet Potato Rosemary Soup, even Sweet Potato Tzimmes (Adam, perfect for your most discriminating Roshashonah celibrants).
Adam, I love the picture of General Powell. Sweet! I haven’t finished digging through the archives yet, but still, it appears your are a rather perceptive lad, for a Yankee…
IL
December 29, 2005 at 11:56 pm
13Cooper (well, not really just you; I picked you because your quote fit),
‘Oh, all that stuff, you’re right. But as I think you stated in the thread below, sadly, being right doesn’t tend to convince many people anymore.’
Anymore?
When did being right have much to do with winning political, military, or almost any other kind of argument? In Egypt? Athens? Rome? Crusades? Inquisition? Copernicus? Galileo? Darwin? Any European colonial empire of the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th century? Britannia ruling the waves? Bolshevik Russia? Any American Indian tribe in early US, Canada, Mexico, Brazil (or even now)? Black person in the US for centuries? Chinese in 1880s US? Woman with any kind of political interest in US for centuries? 1890s US? 1930s US? 1950s US? 1980s US? 1930s Japan? 1930s China? 1930s Germany? 1950s China? Tiananmen Square? A Korean in Japan? A Tutsi in Rwanda? DRC (millions dead in past 10 year, no one knows or cares)? 1980s South Africa?
I missed most of the world and many centuries - a millenium or two for any part of the world except western Europe, left out lots of groups in US history who rightfully belong - even Jews in NYC, that capital of Jewish culture (says someone) around 1900, and most of the things where I picked on the US would apply equally well to almost any country you care to pick in the Americas. But, just based on the little bit of world history I know off the top of my head, the list could easily go on for pages with no paragraph breaks.
Even in the Sciences, one of the very few areas where being right often does win out fairly directly (now, and I am not even sure of that), it almost always takes a fight to change received wisdom. Relativity went fairly easily - everyone knew for a long time that something was badly wrong: but, quantum mechanics? Or much worse (centuries), evolution?
This is not really aimed at you, Cooper. Nor is it aimed at anyone else in particular for that matter. There seems to be a general feeling around among many people I know that the current US political climate is something surprising. It is certainly not good, but it is also not rare.
- Ian
IL
December 30, 2005 at 12:04 am
14Sorry, Cooper. I meant ice weasel.
Murray
December 30, 2005 at 12:39 am
15OK Cooper, you don’t have to divulge the recipe to your Sweet Potato Pudding, but you damn well better bring enough for everyone to Felberpalooza.
ice weasel
December 30, 2005 at 12:58 am
16I’m holding out for creme brulee (yes, I’m a yankee through and through, just ask my very southern wife).
And IL, point taken.
David
December 30, 2005 at 1:14 am
17I thought Creme Brulee was an exotic dancer.
Leslie
December 30, 2005 at 2:11 am
18Okay, I have the Southern Living Annual Recipe books from 1982 through 1994, and I did find a couple of sweet potato pudding recipes in there, but none from your aunt, Cooper. I also have, however, Volume Three of Southern Living’s Best Recipes, which does not list the names of the people who submitted recipes, and it does give a recipe for Grated Sweet Potato Pudding. Maybe this is it, Cooper? If not, maybe you lovers of sweet potatoes will like it anyway:
4 cups grated raw sweet potates
1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup light corn syrup
1 1/2 cups milk
1/3 cup melted butter or margarine
3 eggs, beaten
1 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon salt
Combine all ingredients, mixing well. Spoon mixture into a lightly greased 2-quart casserole. Bake at 325 degrees for 1 1/2 hours or until slightly firm. Yield: 6 to 8 servings.
Linkmeister
December 30, 2005 at 3:06 am
19Leslie, top it with marshmallows and that’s what we had for Christmas Eve. (Well, not just that, but it was one of the sides.)
littlebit
December 30, 2005 at 9:07 am
20I, like David, am no longer capable of being stunned by anything I hear from these folks.
When I was, though, when I sat gap-jawed and watched our president declare war and witnessed all of the ensuing shenanigans, considered the safety aspects of flying a flag (not my style), and wondered where all of the voices I recognized had gone, (before I began working in the Salt Lake City Public Library), Fanatical Apathy was saying it all. I remember. And I stayed.
Remember when Adam’s site went down and a number of us went scrambling to find each other off site? Whew.
FA=Comfort food for thoughtful folk.
Like sweet potatoes. Partner and I have gone totally sweet potatoe. He fries them up the way we used to do spuds–oil, garlic, onion, ginger, bell peppers, lemon. Now to try pudding. I sent him your links this morning, cooper, dee, and Leslie–we’ll see what the afternoon brings.
On to Makers Mark, Sweet Potatoe Palooza!
Motherweary
December 30, 2005 at 2:16 pm
21I can’t help but wonder where we (everybody, Them and Us both) lost the original excuse for the war, that is, the purported link between Saddam Hussein and the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Am I wrong in remembering that this was the original “proximate cause”? Hussein harbors al Qaida terrorists -> Hussein harbors WMD -> Hussein is an evil dictator and we need to bring freedom to the Iraqi people -> if we leave the country will slide into chaos.
Without that apparently fake al Qaida-Hussein link none of the rest would have happened, but as far as I can remember, this link was dropped like a hot potato early on.
Speaking of links and hot potatoes, I’ll have the chocolate pudding, please. Dollop of whipped cream. Thank you.
Leslie
December 30, 2005 at 2:36 pm
22I’m terrible at remembering details, which is why I so appreciate this post, Adam. But Motherweary, I think the first excuse was WMD, and when that one didn’t pan out THAT’S when they started leaning on the al Qaida-Hussein link. They could have been saying the link was there all along, though. It must be in the comments for the previous post, so I can’t give proper credit, but I loved the comment that the only thing Iraq and al Qaida had in common was the “q”!
Leslie
December 30, 2005 at 2:40 pm
23Amina made the comment about Iraq and al Qaida. Good one, Amina!
hedera
December 30, 2005 at 9:12 pm
24Motherweary, several of us have just been discussing the purported Saddam Hussein - Al Quaeda link in the last 10 or so posts under yesterday’s thread (”Jesus n’ Me” - yeah, we were a little off topic…). Suggest you read posts beginning with about #95 which was my request to RRRyan to provide the sources behind his statement that there was a link between OBL and SH. Incidentally you’ll also see some great recipes for sweet potato pie…
Leslie is right, though, that WMD was the first “official” reason, and they only pulled in the link to Al Quaeda when it didn’t seem to be panning out…
ice weasel
December 31, 2005 at 1:55 am
25Ok, a little unemployed holiday blogworing. Since I suddenly seem to have some time on my hands, I want to invite all the felbernauts to visit.
http://www.convergencetime.com/weaselden/
Other than that, I want to wish everyone here a wonderful and very safe New Year.
Murray
December 31, 2005 at 11:46 am
26Um,, Can I wish everyone a Happy New Year with out having to invoke Jesus, and bring down the wrath of the Righteous Right?
Sharon
December 31, 2005 at 1:25 pm
27Murray,
As long as you mean that in the sense of the orthodox (as in “correct”) New Year, that is, St. Basil’s Day, and not the pagan, Winter Solstice observation, then, yes, you may wish everyone a Happy New Year.
As do I. Let’s hope that the coming year brings some glad tidings.
Chris
December 31, 2005 at 1:29 pm
28This may be of help-a timeline on uggabugga’s blog recounting the stories given as excuses for the Iraq war, and when they appeared.
http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/2003_05_11_uggabugga_archive.html#944631 65
Pete IVDL
January 1, 2006 at 7:18 pm
29Mmmmm… Pudding.
RRRRyan
January 2, 2006 at 3:25 am
30Okay, I’m here to stir the pot and I find pudding. If I stir the pot nothing changes since it is pudding. :-\
I’ll concede on this point. I wholeheartedly respect the opinion that we “rushed” into war. Perhaps resolution 935 would have been the one that worked. Based on the PHYSICAL evidence Hussein would have died of natural causes long before his rag tag troop could have posed much of a WMD threat. However, I do still maintain my “gut” feeling that he had them and he snuck them out. Unfortunately “guts” aren’t much use in debate.
Thanks for being nice to me. Kudos to everyone cept Ice Weasel and Murray. … well… I guess yaw aren’t completely useless either.
BTW Hedra, I’ll confess I’m just plain too lazy to produce much more than I have. I guess when I read the article I just skimmed right passed the “idiot” part. It’s all is very circumstantial anyway.
waterfowler
January 2, 2006 at 4:03 am
31Happy New Year! Hook ‘em Horns!
RRRRyan, Frozen Sea Skunk (ask Ann) and Murray are the reasons I keep coming back. So, chill.
And thanks again Adam.
Murray
January 2, 2006 at 10:18 am
32Hmm… I may be doing this all wrong.
Murray
January 2, 2006 at 4:22 pm
33WF.
I thought that we were involved in serious discussion of the issues. It appears that you were just trolling for fun. Silly me. My bad. My responding won’t happen again.
RRRRyan
January 2, 2006 at 8:46 pm
34Anyone taking bets on how long this forum will tolerate me? I’d like to put some money on next Thursday at 8:00 p.m.
waterfowler
January 2, 2006 at 11:23 pm
35Murray,
Your dirge brings tears…
Like I told RRRRyan, chill…
David
January 3, 2006 at 3:07 pm
36Waterfowler,
It will be UF v. UT in ‘08 championship game.
Gators do like prime sirloin, and we also enjoy putting it to any team that wears orange and white…
You are hereby duly warned.
Motherweary
January 3, 2006 at 3:51 pm
37Hedera and others, sorry I missed the Al Qaida discussion in the Jesus thread, or the mentions further up here.
I should clarify: by “us and them” I meant, broadly, those of us in opposition to the war, and those of them in favor of it. I can’t shake the feeling that there’s a logical step missing in the Iraq timeline, and that’s the step that connects the war with the attacks of 9/11: war on terror, pursuit of al Qaeda in Afghanistan, overthrow of Taliban but no capture of Osama bin Laden — purported Iraqi WMD. I am often a bear of little brain, and this confuses the hell out of me. It bothers me that more isn’t made of this gap in the media generally.
The signs painted under the freeway overpasses in Berkeley say “Osama bin forgotten” and I keep wondering why.