<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.11" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: We Don&#8217;t Torture</title>
	<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/</link>
	<description>America's favorite blog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.11</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11383</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11383</guid>
					<description>Something went awry with an attempt to post a link to Mark Fiore's latest animation, which features Knuckles on the joy of torture, praise be to the Bush administration.  Ah, well, maybe you guys already know about Mark Fiore's work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something went awry with an attempt to post a link to Mark Fiore&#8217;s latest animation, which features Knuckles on the joy of torture, praise be to the Bush administration.  Ah, well, maybe you guys already know about Mark Fiore&#8217;s work.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Scooby</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11372</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11372</guid>
					<description>Oh, I don't know.  I think you're all being a bit tough on this administration.  I mean, come on... the Iraqi Interior Minister said that at least nobody was beheaded.  Let's put our standards in perspective here....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I don&#8217;t know.  I think you&#8217;re all being a bit tough on this administration.  I mean, come on&#8230; the Iraqi Interior Minister said that at least nobody was beheaded.  Let&#8217;s put our standards in perspective here&#8230;.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Monster</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11361</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11361</guid>
					<description>Wow, 63 comments and not one right-winger claiming to know the answer to Adam's question.  And here I was searching for enlightenment.  Silly, silly me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, 63 comments and not one right-winger claiming to know the answer to Adam&#8217;s question.  And here I was searching for enlightenment.  Silly, silly me.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11344</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11344</guid>
					<description>Murray,

I was in late elementary and then junior high school during the height of McCarthyism.  The father of one of the students at my junior high school, an air force officer, took it upon himself to come to our school library and check our books to see if any of them were com-symp.  I was instinctively offended (but then my parents were pretty even-handed, although essentially conservative, and they had no use for censorship).  I suspect it would depend on the influences on your thinking at the time.  But clearly humans do at first tend, as a group, to go along, especially in the context of war or other fear-inspiring circumstances.  We are still all too tribal, all too easily led, and all too short-sighted (for starters).

Of course, I also remember being in a distinct minority when I said on the school bus (we're talking Orange County, Florida mid-50s) that I was happy segregated schools had been ruled unconstitutional.  The real surprise, now that I look back on it, was that no one hit me and I was not ostracized, only looked on as a curiosity for that particular view.

I should imagine the list of things for which our grandchildren will be ashamed of us will be rather long, and it will include things that have inflicted permanent harm, which we tolerated long after we had every opportunity to recognize what we were doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murray,</p>
<p>I was in late elementary and then junior high school during the height of McCarthyism.  The father of one of the students at my junior high school, an air force officer, took it upon himself to come to our school library and check our books to see if any of them were com-symp.  I was instinctively offended (but then my parents were pretty even-handed, although essentially conservative, and they had no use for censorship).  I suspect it would depend on the influences on your thinking at the time.  But clearly humans do at first tend, as a group, to go along, especially in the context of war or other fear-inspiring circumstances.  We are still all too tribal, all too easily led, and all too short-sighted (for starters).</p>
<p>Of course, I also remember being in a distinct minority when I said on the school bus (we&#8217;re talking Orange County, Florida mid-50s) that I was happy segregated schools had been ruled unconstitutional.  The real surprise, now that I look back on it, was that no one hit me and I was not ostracized, only looked on as a curiosity for that particular view.</p>
<p>I should imagine the list of things for which our grandchildren will be ashamed of us will be rather long, and it will include things that have inflicted permanent harm, which we tolerated long after we had every opportunity to recognize what we were doing.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Murray</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11338</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11338</guid>
					<description>When I was in school we were taught about slavery and it was obvious from my vantage point that it was wrong, yet many of the people at the time didn't think so. Then there were internment camps in CA. I wondered if I would have gone along with public opinion and have been in favor of them. How would I have handled McCarthyism at the time? (at 2 years old I had poorly informed opinions). Now we are torturing people to death in front of the world. It's not hard to see what is right and what is an emotional response, that seems to work at the moment, if you don't think about it for more than a second or two. When our grandchildren learn history this will be another thing they will be ashamed of and wonder why it happened and if they would have done differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was in school we were taught about slavery and it was obvious from my vantage point that it was wrong, yet many of the people at the time didn&#8217;t think so. Then there were internment camps in CA. I wondered if I would have gone along with public opinion and have been in favor of them. How would I have handled McCarthyism at the time? (at 2 years old I had poorly informed opinions). Now we are torturing people to death in front of the world. It&#8217;s not hard to see what is right and what is an emotional response, that seems to work at the moment, if you don&#8217;t think about it for more than a second or two. When our grandchildren learn history this will be another thing they will be ashamed of and wonder why it happened and if they would have done differently.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Pete IVDL</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11336</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11336</guid>
					<description>Isn't it a pity that folks aren't as excited by recent history as they are about ID. Geez, I know I hate to relive my mistakes (after all, there are &lt;i&gt;so many&lt;/i&gt; to choose from), but at least I'm willing to learn from them. Then again, someone will be saying the same thing in 20 years' time when some brave soul mentions the "Terrorism Response mistakes of the early years of the 21st century" in the same breath as wrongful internment, Nazism, the stolen generation, global warming. Pity a bit of hindsight vision doesn't happen right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it a pity that folks aren&#8217;t as excited by recent history as they are about ID. Geez, I know I hate to relive my mistakes (after all, there are <i>so many</i> to choose from), but at least I&#8217;m willing to learn from them. Then again, someone will be saying the same thing in 20 years&#8217; time when some brave soul mentions the &#8220;Terrorism Response mistakes of the early years of the 21st century&#8221; in the same breath as wrongful internment, Nazism, the stolen generation, global warming. Pity a bit of hindsight vision doesn&#8217;t happen right now.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Landis</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11333</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11333</guid>
					<description>Speaking of WWII 'Relocation' Camps and whether we will remember or not...  I was recently down at Manzanar (near Lone Pine, CA) and stopped by the historic site.  I was extremely impressed by what the park service has done.  The old high school gym has been converted into a wonderful museum about life in the camps and what it was like here in the US during WWII.  Things that I was never taught in history class.

As to whether we'll remember, I'm reminded of the guest book.  Several people had written things along the line of "interesting museum but we must never forget what &lt;i&gt;these people&lt;/i&gt; did to us at that time as well".  Completely missing the point that &lt;i&gt;these people&lt;/i&gt; were AMERICANS and many had been here for as long as any caucasian americans.

I took some panoramas out at the cemetery if anyone is interested:
http://360geographics.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry050807-213012</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of WWII &#8216;Relocation&#8217; Camps and whether we will remember or not&#8230;  I was recently down at Manzanar (near Lone Pine, CA) and stopped by the historic site.  I was extremely impressed by what the park service has done.  The old high school gym has been converted into a wonderful museum about life in the camps and what it was like here in the US during WWII.  Things that I was never taught in history class.</p>
<p>As to whether we&#8217;ll remember, I&#8217;m reminded of the guest book.  Several people had written things along the line of &#8220;interesting museum but we must never forget what <i>these people</i> did to us at that time as well&#8221;.  Completely missing the point that <i>these people</i> were AMERICANS and many had been here for as long as any caucasian americans.</p>
<p>I took some panoramas out at the cemetery if anyone is interested:<br />
<a href="http://360geographics.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry050807-213012" rel="nofollow">http://360geographics.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry050807-213012</a>
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11331</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11331</guid>
					<description>Cooper,

I come from drooling, inbred Appalachian cretins (Kentucky), so don't write us all off.  And remember the range - from Terry Sanford all the way the Jesse Helms - mountain Anglos are more like bipolar than anything else, although the rise of reactionary American conservatism certainly has a drooling, inbred, cretinous quality about it.

Waterfowler,

Peace, Love, and a Loaded .357 Magnum (everyone in San Francisco should have a hip-mounted howitzer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cooper,</p>
<p>I come from drooling, inbred Appalachian cretins (Kentucky), so don&#8217;t write us all off.  And remember the range - from Terry Sanford all the way the Jesse Helms - mountain Anglos are more like bipolar than anything else, although the rise of reactionary American conservatism certainly has a drooling, inbred, cretinous quality about it.</p>
<p>Waterfowler,</p>
<p>Peace, Love, and a Loaded .357 Magnum (everyone in San Francisco should have a hip-mounted howitzer).
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: cooper</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11329</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11329</guid>
					<description>hedera, the same thought crossed my mind - 40 yrs of high school kids vs forced internment in the desert. 

Maine has winters that screen out all but the most hardy and desperate. If you look closely though, there are quite a few French Canadian and Native American names on the mail boxes, but you're are right about the diversity. CA is well known for it's mix of ethnicity, but here may a surprise - NC has booming populations of South and Central Americans, plus a large mix of African, Vietnamese, Chinese and Hmong. "NC! It's not just for drooling inbred cretins, anymore!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hedera, the same thought crossed my mind - 40 yrs of high school kids vs forced internment in the desert. </p>
<p>Maine has winters that screen out all but the most hardy and desperate. If you look closely though, there are quite a few French Canadian and Native American names on the mail boxes, but you&#8217;re are right about the diversity. CA is well known for it&#8217;s mix of ethnicity, but here may a surprise - NC has booming populations of South and Central Americans, plus a large mix of African, Vietnamese, Chinese and Hmong. &#8220;NC! It&#8217;s not just for drooling inbred cretins, anymore!&#8221;
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: hedera</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11328</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 04:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/11/07/we-dont-torture/#comment-11328</guid>
					<description>cooper, here's to your Aunt Fumi.  I actually find it more amazing that she taught public high school for 40 years than that she survived the internment camps, if I may be a little flippant.  Californians are - some of us anyway - just a leetle tetchy on the subject of the Japanese internment camps.  

One of the things I like about California is the extreme range of races and cultures here - and they're all mixing together.  Give us another 3-4 generations and everybody will be a little of everything.  We went to the Maine coast in the fall of 2000 and it was incredibly gorgeous, but I was flabbergasted at the homogeneity.  It wasn't that I didn't see any German or Japanese or Italian names - I didn't see any &lt;i&gt;Irish&lt;/i&gt; names!  We might as well have been in England.  We stopped in Boston on the same trip, though, so that made up for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cooper, here&#8217;s to your Aunt Fumi.  I actually find it more amazing that she taught public high school for 40 years than that she survived the internment camps, if I may be a little flippant.  Californians are - some of us anyway - just a leetle tetchy on the subject of the Japanese internment camps.  </p>
<p>One of the things I like about California is the extreme range of races and cultures here - and they&#8217;re all mixing together.  Give us another 3-4 generations and everybody will be a little of everything.  We went to the Maine coast in the fall of 2000 and it was incredibly gorgeous, but I was flabbergasted at the homogeneity.  It wasn&#8217;t that I didn&#8217;t see any German or Japanese or Italian names - I didn&#8217;t see any <i>Irish</i> names!  We might as well have been in England.  We stopped in Boston on the same trip, though, so that made up for it.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
