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	<title>Comments on: Deeper Than Deep</title>
	<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/</link>
	<description>America's favorite blog</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: hedera</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9076</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 04:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9076</guid>
					<description>Elliott, I saw the movie too (reluctantly), and as I watched that sequence, I had the same weird feeling.  That is exactly how the W people talk.  It's as if the words don't really mean what they say.  

In Orwell's Newspeak, at least they made up new words; this is more like Lewis Carroll:  

&lt;i&gt;`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliott, I saw the movie too (reluctantly), and as I watched that sequence, I had the same weird feeling.  That is exactly how the W people talk.  It&#8217;s as if the words don&#8217;t really mean what they say.  </p>
<p>In Orwell&#8217;s Newspeak, at least they made up new words; this is more like Lewis Carroll:  </p>
<p><i>`When I use a word,&#8217; Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean &#8212; neither more nor less.&#8217;</i>
</p>
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		<title>by: Pete IVDL</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9050</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9050</guid>
					<description>So does this mean there is now "big" journalism to go with "big" government? And does that make blogologists David to the MSM's Goliath? (I know it's not THAT black &#38; white)

So if the SERs are senior editors now (I think you're right on that Mary), can we do anything about the newer SERs bringing their "hit of the minute" goldfish-style attention span ethics to the business of journalism? Or must we rely on the few to edit the many? (I don't like where this line of thought is heading... headlines like "The Frog Ringtone"? Or MSM that reads like The Onion, only for real?)

Elliott!!! I haven't seen the movie yet... don't tell me Anakin W Skywalker (D., Tattooine) turns into a mean, horrible Sith Lord (R., Empire)... (And what a great (and scary) memory you have!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So does this mean there is now &#8220;big&#8221; journalism to go with &#8220;big&#8221; government? And does that make blogologists David to the MSM&#8217;s Goliath? (I know it&#8217;s not THAT black &amp; white)</p>
<p>So if the SERs are senior editors now (I think you&#8217;re right on that Mary), can we do anything about the newer SERs bringing their &#8220;hit of the minute&#8221; goldfish-style attention span ethics to the business of journalism? Or must we rely on the few to edit the many? (I don&#8217;t like where this line of thought is heading&#8230; headlines like &#8220;The Frog Ringtone&#8221;? Or MSM that reads like The Onion, only for real?)</p>
<p>Elliott!!! I haven&#8217;t seen the movie yet&#8230; don&#8217;t tell me Anakin W Skywalker (D., Tattooine) turns into a mean, horrible Sith Lord (R., Empire)&#8230; (And what a great (and scary) memory you have!)
</p>
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		<title>by: Harold</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9047</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9047</guid>
					<description>Now, now.  There is one heroic Deep Throat in the Dubya Administration: the Noble and True Anonymous Source that bravely outed Valerie Plame to the Woodward &#38; Bernstein of our day, Robert Novak.  Let that be a lesson to villains like Joe Wilson who will DARE to contradict the assertions of His Excellency with mere FACTS!  No, vile wretches, even your families are not safe from the fruits of your treason!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, now.  There is one heroic Deep Throat in the Dubya Administration: the Noble and True Anonymous Source that bravely outed Valerie Plame to the Woodward &amp; Bernstein of our day, Robert Novak.  Let that be a lesson to villains like Joe Wilson who will DARE to contradict the assertions of His Excellency with mere FACTS!  No, vile wretches, even your families are not safe from the fruits of your treason!
</p>
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		<title>by: madbard</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9046</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9046</guid>
					<description>Everyone knows G. Gordon Liddy HAS A TALK SHOW! Therefore he is a HERO. Who is this mark felt? Some 90 year old without a talk show? Even his name sounds like a font family.

Actually there were Deep Throats in the Bush administration. But they've disappeared into the pits of Gitmo.... or got tarred with the MSM brush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone knows G. Gordon Liddy HAS A TALK SHOW! Therefore he is a HERO. Who is this mark felt? Some 90 year old without a talk show? Even his name sounds like a font family.</p>
<p>Actually there were Deep Throats in the Bush administration. But they&#8217;ve disappeared into the pits of Gitmo&#8230;. or got tarred with the MSM brush.
</p>
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		<title>by: Thompson</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9045</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9045</guid>
					<description>Occasionally, life does ascend to the level of art.  From an AFP article, G. Gordon Liddy--the guy who organized the Watergate break-in--just accused Felt of violating the ethical standards of the office he held during the scandal.  In other news, the Bureau of Pot Affairs insists the kettle is less than white.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occasionally, life does ascend to the level of art.  From an AFP article, G. Gordon Liddy&#8211;the guy who organized the Watergate break-in&#8211;just accused Felt of violating the ethical standards of the office he held during the scandal.  In other news, the Bureau of Pot Affairs insists the kettle is less than white.
</p>
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		<title>by: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9044</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9044</guid>
					<description>O.K. I know this is just a silly pop culture reference, but I am reminded of the line in the new Star Wars movie when Obi-Wan and Anakin "W." Skywalker were about to fight:

Anakin Skywalker: Don't lecture me, Obi-Wan. I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, justice, freedom and security to my new Empire. 
Obi-Wan: Your new Empire? 
Anakin Skywalker: Don't make me kill you. 
Obi-Wan: Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic... to democracy. 
Anakin Skywalker: If you're not with me, you're my enemy. 
Obi-Wan: Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. I will do what I must. 
Anakin Skywalker: You will try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.K. I know this is just a silly pop culture reference, but I am reminded of the line in the new Star Wars movie when Obi-Wan and Anakin &#8220;W.&#8221; Skywalker were about to fight:</p>
<p>Anakin Skywalker: Don&#8217;t lecture me, Obi-Wan. I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, justice, freedom and security to my new Empire.<br />
Obi-Wan: Your new Empire?<br />
Anakin Skywalker: Don&#8217;t make me kill you.<br />
Obi-Wan: Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic&#8230; to democracy.<br />
Anakin Skywalker: If you&#8217;re not with me, you&#8217;re my enemy.<br />
Obi-Wan: Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.<br />
Anakin Skywalker: You will try.
</p>
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		<title>by: Harold</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9043</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9043</guid>
					<description>"Rather than defending an important institution that the right has hobbled, we’re defiantly kicking away at the other leg."

Hmm...sounds kinda like our national attitude towards public education.  Do you think there might be a connection?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Rather than defending an important institution that the right has hobbled, we’re defiantly kicking away at the other leg.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm&#8230;sounds kinda like our national attitude towards public education.  Do you think there might be a connection?
</p>
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		<title>by: Murray</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9042</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9042</guid>
					<description>Best I can tell, both Dee and Adam are right. 
The problem is that the media are sniveling cowards. 
The problem is that the corrupt administration is intentionally discrediting the media to get away with war crimes.

But it's probably even more complex and confusing than just that. 

Right wingers have a different mind set than us liberals. They believe in a "Strict Father" view of life. People in authority need to punish infractions, sometimes even harshly. This FORCES the recipient to walk the straight and narrow. Thing are either good or bad, there is no middle ground.
 
Think how Chaney, Rumsfelt and Bolton work.
(I just heard on the radio that Pat Buchannon called Felt a trator. But isn't that exactly what you would expect from him?)

Liberals have a "Nurturing Father" view. We believe that people are better helped than punished, there are often extenuating circumstances and that problems are not black and white.

With few exceptions, right wingers are the ones most forceful in projecting their views. It's in their nature. Liberals are more likely to see two sides and less likely to be aggressive. It's what we do. We also like to use satire to point out problems, (think O Riley and Franken). (Of course the best satire is found here)

It was only 8 years ago that the right was championing the media against Clinton, and pushed their agenda up to the point of impeachment for something that wasn't a crime or harmed anyone.

Even while the right was storming around in a self-righteous, bizerk, fervor on how Clinton was too immoral to be president, Bill maintained a public approval ratings in the 70s.And now the righteous right has the media cowering in the corner, yet Bush still has the lowest 2nd term approval ratings in modern history. Go figure. Maybe it has to do with peace and prosperity, or maybe some things are too big to spin away.

The right will always be able to out shout us. We will always have intelligence, wit and usually the truth, on our side. Americans will continue to not know or care.

M's M

R are R
D are G
A are I</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best I can tell, both Dee and Adam are right.<br />
The problem is that the media are sniveling cowards.<br />
The problem is that the corrupt administration is intentionally discrediting the media to get away with war crimes.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s probably even more complex and confusing than just that. </p>
<p>Right wingers have a different mind set than us liberals. They believe in a &#8220;Strict Father&#8221; view of life. People in authority need to punish infractions, sometimes even harshly. This FORCES the recipient to walk the straight and narrow. Thing are either good or bad, there is no middle ground.</p>
<p>Think how Chaney, Rumsfelt and Bolton work.<br />
(I just heard on the radio that Pat Buchannon called Felt a trator. But isn&#8217;t that exactly what you would expect from him?)</p>
<p>Liberals have a &#8220;Nurturing Father&#8221; view. We believe that people are better helped than punished, there are often extenuating circumstances and that problems are not black and white.</p>
<p>With few exceptions, right wingers are the ones most forceful in projecting their views. It&#8217;s in their nature. Liberals are more likely to see two sides and less likely to be aggressive. It&#8217;s what we do. We also like to use satire to point out problems, (think O Riley and Franken). (Of course the best satire is found here)</p>
<p>It was only 8 years ago that the right was championing the media against Clinton, and pushed their agenda up to the point of impeachment for something that wasn&#8217;t a crime or harmed anyone.</p>
<p>Even while the right was storming around in a self-righteous, bizerk, fervor on how Clinton was too immoral to be president, Bill maintained a public approval ratings in the 70s.And now the righteous right has the media cowering in the corner, yet Bush still has the lowest 2nd term approval ratings in modern history. Go figure. Maybe it has to do with peace and prosperity, or maybe some things are too big to spin away.</p>
<p>The right will always be able to out shout us. We will always have intelligence, wit and usually the truth, on our side. Americans will continue to not know or care.</p>
<p>M&#8217;s M</p>
<p>R are R<br />
D are G<br />
A are I
</p>
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		<title>by: Mary</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9041</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9041</guid>
					<description>I hate to point this out but the starry eyed reporters who went to J school because they wanted to be like Bob &#38; Carl are now in their 50s. Most are editors and columnists by now. Few are still on the "beat".  

As for the new kids on the block? They are being taught the ethics of journalism. Unfortunately, their personal ethics were shaped long before they got into J school. Those with a solid foundation are doing good work. The others are bringing down the wrath of both the Right and Left on everyone. When the sith hits the fan, both the righteous and unrighteous get sullied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to point this out but the starry eyed reporters who went to J school because they wanted to be like Bob &amp; Carl are now in their 50s. Most are editors and columnists by now. Few are still on the &#8220;beat&#8221;.  </p>
<p>As for the new kids on the block? They are being taught the ethics of journalism. Unfortunately, their personal ethics were shaped long before they got into J school. Those with a solid foundation are doing good work. The others are bringing down the wrath of both the Right and Left on everyone. When the sith hits the fan, both the righteous and unrighteous get sullied.
</p>
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		<title>by: Bob</title>
		<link>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9040</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fanaticalapathy.com/2005/05/31/deeper-than-deep/#comment-9040</guid>
					<description>Yes, I get incredibly frustrated with mainstream media reporting.  But, God bless 'em, some mainstream reporters actually get up out of their chairs, leave the building, and find things out.  For every Judy Miller taking dictation from Ahmed Chalabi, there's a Seymour Hersh casting a skeptical eye on the world.

Well, OK, maybe it's 50 Millers to every Hersh, but that's still better than nothing.

On a side note, do you get the feeling that this story wouldn't have broken now unless Felt's daughter was looking for some cash?  She comes across as a real piece of work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I get incredibly frustrated with mainstream media reporting.  But, God bless &#8216;em, some mainstream reporters actually get up out of their chairs, leave the building, and find things out.  For every Judy Miller taking dictation from Ahmed Chalabi, there&#8217;s a Seymour Hersh casting a skeptical eye on the world.</p>
<p>Well, OK, maybe it&#8217;s 50 Millers to every Hersh, but that&#8217;s still better than nothing.</p>
<p>On a side note, do you get the feeling that this story wouldn&#8217;t have broken now unless Felt&#8217;s daughter was looking for some cash?  She comes across as a real piece of work.
</p>
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