WILMINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow said on Thursday the alternative to President Bush’s plan to overhaul the Social Security retirement system is probably higher taxes for workers — something the administration is dead set against…
Bush wants to let workers funnel some of their payroll taxes into accounts invested in stocks and bonds. Higher returns from those investments would likely offset cuts in benefits in the retirement program, the president has said.
_____________________________
Q: So, Social Security is going to run out of money, huh?
A: Yes. Someday the system will be obligated to pay out more money than it makes or has in reserve.
Q: When?
A: Nobody knows. It depends on how much money people make and how long older people live.
Q: So is there a crisis?
A: Sure. Or at least a “challenge.” Call it a “coming crisis.”
Q: So, Bush’s plan…
A: It’s not a plan.
Q: What?
A: He hasn’t submitted a plan. Doesn’t want it to be a political football.
Q: So what is it?
A: It’s a suggestion.
Q: Okay. Bush’s suggestion. Private retirement accounts?
A: Yes. If you want to keep your benefits as is, fine. But if you want to invest some of your money into -
Q: Hang on - so benefits won’t be cut?
A: Of course not.
Q: But what about that thing Bush is saying about cutting benefits?
A: He never said that. Where on earth would you get that idea?
Q: Right up there. above the dotted line… “…would offset any cut in benefits.”
A: Oh.
Q: So benefits WOULD be cut.
A: Maybe somewhere down the line. Not by Bush. But, yeah, conceivably I guess… look, there’s a crisis coming…
Q: And what if the people who earned the most money were the ones taking their Social Security tax and investing it privately?
A: EVERYONE will be able to invest privately.
Q: Yeah, but what if mainly the rich people DO? You know, the ones who have financial advisors and whatnot and therefore are much more likely to want to invest… What if that DOES happen?
A: This is REALLY speculative right here…
Q: Wouldn’t that lower amount of money IN the program for people who didn’t invest privately, resulting in less of a pool to draw “guaranteed” benefits from?
A: It’s really more complicated than that.
Q: …
A: …
Q: This is a little like Iraq, isn’t it?
A: What do you mean?
Q: You know, the administration declares there’s a future crisis because of X, so they go rushing in to transform things, and the crisis in question, like a nuclear Iraq or an insolvent Social Security never comes about…
A: Calm down for a minute here…
Q: …meanwhile, the newly-reformed version of the world renders the original question moot - now we’ve GOT a crisis, and we have to deal with it. The fact that the original crisis caused by “X” might never have come about is now just a thought, it’s “too late for finger-pointing,” and somehow during the process someone’s gotten a lot richer, be it Halliburton or wealthy retirees who were able to funnel their Social Security tax into their IRA.
A: …
Q: Because it -
A: Look, we have to act NOW, and we’re going to.
Q: But I just pointed out -
A: Sorry, we can’t wait.
Q: Yeah but -
A: Do you want old people to starve?
Q: No, I just -
A: Do you hate America?
Q: Of course n-
A: Because you’re talking like an America-hating old-people-starver who’s willing to sit back and do nothing. Well, WE’RE not gonna take it.
Q: …
A: And if it turns out that there was never going to be a crisis or that our solution was wrong and we have to cut benefits, well, we can talk about that later. After we do something now.
Q: …
A: …
Q: You promise?
A: Sure.





33 comments
Mike Z
March 24, 2005 at 4:53 pm
1One of my sole sources of political optimism these days is that the public is actually figuring this one out, at least a little bit. Why this time? Because it really strikes home, of course! Unlike…well, unlike bombs striking other people’s homes in other countries.
bjd
March 24, 2005 at 5:28 pm
2Don’t be hatin’ da players (Republicans)–hate da Game (those dirty, gay-lovin’, freedom-hatin’ AARP senior citizens).
Scott
March 24, 2005 at 7:27 pm
3Please , PLEASE 3rd Rail, Spark a little Higher!!!
PC Pete
March 24, 2005 at 7:50 pm
4Does Terry Schiavo qualify for superannuation? Since she isn’t working? (Literally or figuratively).
Maybe that’s why the Supreme court refused to rule in her parents’ favour - if EVERYONE lives as long as that, there’s gonna be a real crisis.
Aren’t superannuation discussions great? Not only is the answer too far off to be really critical to many folks worrying about paying for fuel and electricity and food right now, it’s gonna happen in another administration! Win-Win-Win! I gotta get me some of that.
dee
March 24, 2005 at 11:27 pm
5So let me get this straight:
We may or may not have a plan to fix what may or may not be a crisis and this plan/not plan involves taking money out of the Social Security fund to make sure there will be more money in it in the future when we need it, only nobody’s quite sure when that will really be.
Anyone want to join me in painting the roses red?
Murray
March 24, 2005 at 11:37 pm
6Uh… I’m a bit confused.
Are the questions or the answers that Noah Mc Cullah kid? Isn’t he still on the payroll?
tess
March 25, 2005 at 3:04 am
7Noah’s still around? Where? I need a sparring partner to practice my throws, and he’s the right size to fly!
Lynne
March 25, 2005 at 7:20 am
8Hello, call me Oliver Stone, but did anyone else think that the stock market might go up with the President out pushing his nebulous idea on Social Security? That Wall Street would buy buy buy so the market would look great and the masses would say, mmmm, maybe this will work?
Instead, I’ve got a stock that has great projections, solid earnings and it’s in the tank.
DAMN YOU ROBBER BARONS!
Thompson
March 25, 2005 at 12:26 pm
9Nah. While the pres may not read papers, Lynne, most people involved in Wall Street find it to be somewhat helpful for their jobs–can’t imagine why–so, unlike Dubya, they’re probably peripherally aware of the fact that 60%+ of the country is giving his “plan” the hairy eyeball among other choice gestures. Not being stupid (well, okay, that’s debatable given how your seemingly healthy company is faring, but for now we’ll give them the benefit of the doubt), they’re just conducting business as usual.
Now, if congress actually passes the thrice-bedamned thing, THEN you’ll see one hell of a bull market as the top of the pyramid does its level best to make the market seem the most attractive option. Until then, well, they’re not playing with other people’s money. Okay, they’re not playing with other people’s money on the scale they prefer to.
And, tess, I’m shocked. You’d resort to fisticuffs? How barbaric. That simply will not do. Here, have a rapier.
Dave D
March 25, 2005 at 12:31 pm
10dee: painting all those roses red is just *so* much effort. I’ll just stick with my rose-colored glasses.
Mary
March 25, 2005 at 12:42 pm
11One of the things I “love” about W’s argument is that 1) he never addresses the problem of those who are disabled and need SS; 2) he never addresses the families that get SS because parents have died, or 3) the SS was NEVER meant to be everyone’s sole source of retirement income - it is a safety net. Why look at the whole problem when a false “crisis” will do?
Somehow the rest of us have figured that out and put money into IRAs, investments etc. So, our kids aren’t smart enough to do so unless the government makes the offer?
(Ok, so that was 4 things)
Mike Z
March 25, 2005 at 12:57 pm
12**Off Topic**
Ok, so maybe this officially qualifies as “old news” at this point, but the Univ. of Colorado has finished its 30 day review of Ward Churchill. http://www.colorado.edu/news/reports/churchill/report.html
They decided that his writing and speeches are protected by the first amendment (whew!) but that his scholarly work is fairly suspect. They referred his case to the faculty review committee to see if his work is crappy enough to warrant disciplinary action, which could include dismissal.
Lyncca Harvey
March 25, 2005 at 2:45 pm
13Hey Adam! Remember me? Of course my last name and website are different now, but I designed the header for your website.
I just happened to stumble upon your site when looking through some google listings.
I’m glad to see you are doing well. I am too, married now and my business is just going crazy (5 websites now all with different services).
Anywho, I just wanted to say hi and let you know I dropped by
Jerry
March 25, 2005 at 9:31 pm
14Q: What happens, under Bush’s plan or suggestion, or thought that buzzes around like an annoying mosquito in his otherwise empty cranium, to old folks who made bad investments, like maybe, Enron, and lost all their retirement savings?
A: Well, I guess they would starve or freeze for being stupid…wait, don’t quote me on that…I meant “we would have to have some social program that they didn’t pay into to give them a basic standard of living, but how the hell that would be paid for, I haven’t a clue!!!! Maybe a payroll tax, or sumthin’.”
Harold
March 25, 2005 at 9:54 pm
15I still have a feeling that this is all somehow tied into Bush’s plan for a manned mission to Mars. Debtors’ prisons on Mars? Old people forced into slave labor shoveling hydrazine fuel into the engines of Halliburton-built rockets on the long trip out, while their private-account-investing overlords sip martinis on the bridge and take potshots at passing asteroids? But to what end?
hedera
March 25, 2005 at 11:50 pm
16My husband has been doing genealogical research, and on the track of a possibly misspelled great-something, he was prowling through the Illinois census for 1900 or 1910 or so. He discovered that the misspelled person wasn’t his ancestor; but he was interested in the person’s place of residence: the Pauper House. From the census records, the majority of the residents in the Pauper House were elderly.
In case anyone has forgotten, this is what happened to you before Social Security, unless you were fortunate enough to have younger and richer relatives who would take you in and feed and house you (possibly in exchange for taking care of their kids).
Now, of course, we don’t have Pauper Houses any more; we just put the indigent elderly out on the street, in cardboard boxes. But Dubya wouldn’t know anything about that.
dee
March 26, 2005 at 9:48 pm
17Either we’ve been spammed or Adam is trying to tell us something.
hedera
March 26, 2005 at 10:56 pm
18We’ve been spammed. Adam doesn’t tell us things like that.
Jerry
March 27, 2005 at 4:02 am
19And just what is wrong with cardboard boxes? As the Yellow Rose said in a recent address to the Paperboard Manufacture’s Association (prepared for him by the Public Information Office of the Paperboard Manufacture’s Association) “Cardboard is a fine structural material. The combination of a cor’gated interyer and two exteryer layers of sunstanchial paper provide rigidity and insulatin’ qualities that make this material a comfortable and durable home for useless Americans. Under my plan, many elderly Americans will be enjoyin’ their declinin’ years in homes made entirely of this substantial and recyclable material.”
tess
March 27, 2005 at 5:18 am
20Jerry:
I can see it now: these fine elderly Americans would further contribute to our great society as farm aides when the big guy in the sky collects ‘em and we collect their bodies to be ground down to plump up penises. They live out the remainder of their lives in recycleable paperboard, and then they become valuable raw materials for our burgeoning plastic surgery industry — when they’re not being used for practice. And best of all, as soon as they’re paupers, their lifespans become all that much shorter, meaning they ultimately don’t have to save as much to get to where they are, and we have a better estimate as to how long these old people live! Isn’t having “private” accounts grand?
bob
March 27, 2005 at 5:40 am
21This is really funny.
Like everything on this great site.
And, well, it’s not making any goddamn difference in how f’d up things are.
Isn’t it time to stop making jokes and start taking serious action?
Really, I’m serious. Taking 50 minutes to make a funny blog is fun, but what if that time was spent doing things that actually REALLY made a difference.
Sorry to be negative, but the “ha ha funny, can’t believe what a moron these guys are” tact has not worked, and they’re really taking over and messing everying up.
I really think it’s time to hang up the jesters cap and start organizing.
___________________________
Like, I mean imagine if MLK totally decided to make an awesome blog about, you know the funny black thing in the south in the 60s. so totally funny man! let’s write a really funny script about the witty banter at a lunch counter between a social worker and a policeman with a dog!!!!!!!!! and then the fireman comes in with the hose!!!! pa dum dum!!! ha hah ahhah
fade to black :0
___________________________
Lynne
March 27, 2005 at 8:02 am
22Bob:
If we lose our ability to mock, the terrorists have won.
I think most of us are going over to our windows and screaming, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”.
So maybe we joke and laugh but when you read the posts here I’m always impressed with just how smart everyone is. I feel a bit like the kid who someone snuck into an advanced placement course thinking that I really shouldn’t be here. But I actually learn things, just like The Daily Show which spurs me into activism.
Bob, with everything going on, I need the humor.
Mike Z
March 27, 2005 at 1:19 pm
23Bob -
I appreciate the sentiment, but as far as I’m concerned, my comments here are not intended to change anything or anybody. If I really wanted to change the world, then just sitting here and commenting would indeed be an odd strategy.
Luckily, I do have a few minutes left each week for something slightly more substantial.
hedera
March 27, 2005 at 5:27 pm
24We may not be out on the street with signs, but we are exercising our first amendment rights to disagree publicly with the government. It’s an additional plus that many of us can do so in a humorous way. And Lynne is right about the humor; we need the humor; we need the satire. Satire restates things in a way that points up the implications that the government is trying to blur.
This is a lot more important than you may think; if, for instance, you tried to do it in Zimbabwe (I was just reading about the upcoming so-called “election”), it would get you at best a beating and probably taken off the list of people who get food aid. And since food aid is about the only way anybody in Zimbabwe eats anymore, that’s not good.
As the second amendment people realize (and God knows I have problems with the right THEY defend), rights which aren’t actively exercised and defended may cease to be rights; and if we ever had a government that would be willing to remove the right to disagree with it, it’s the present administration. Since Dubya is on record as saying he doesn’t read, it’s unlikely he’ll ever become aware of this site, but if he did, there would be no legal action he could take.
Let the satire continue.
Murray
March 27, 2005 at 7:01 pm
25Bob, does making fun of absurdities, preclude action? What makes you think we aren’t active?
Would you have us not satirize this administration?
Allison in Santa Cruz
March 27, 2005 at 10:05 pm
26Bob,
Speaking only for myself, if I didn’t have this blog to turn to for a satiric view of life in these United States today, I’d collapse into a useless heap. It’s simply too tragic not to be laughed at.
Jerry
March 27, 2005 at 11:07 pm
27Bob, you are absolutely right, and if all I did was sit around in self-congratulatory blogs, I would be ashamed. But, I, and I bet a lot more commenters here, are actively involved in local politics, and doing everything we can to make 2006 a year the Republicans look on with terror and remorse.
Locally, I’m seeing a lot more people disillusioned with the performance of the new compassionately conservative national government. A very active *local movement* is fighting the good fight locally, and shows signs of expanding our vision.
Perhaps I could spend the time I use here and on other blogs more productively, but I need some fun and mutual support, like I find here, as well.
I hope that MLK found the time at the end of a hard day to sit back with friends, and have a chuckle at the ignoramouses that they opposed.
Jerry
March 28, 2005 at 2:34 am
28tess - Consuming/injecting ground up old people plumps up penises?! I’ll have to try that. There’s an old folks warehouse right up the street…I’m sure one or two wouldn’t be missed. Thanks for the 411!
jan
March 28, 2005 at 10:23 am
29The hospital I used to work for would send me statements each year telling me how much I’d get in my defined benefit plan if I worked until age 65 (about $900/month). In 1997, I’d been employed for 17 years when they converted to a defined contribution plan (401K). I was given a little more than $9000 (about 10 months of retirement income) and told to invest it well. That gave me 3 years to add to it before the stock market bubble broke.
Now, Dubya is planning to do much the same for lucky old me. He’s telling everyone 55 and older not to worry, but I’m only 50. It’s deja vu all over again….
But I do have Plan 9. It’s been on the back burner for several years now. Dubya likes entrepreneurial enterprise and he’s pushing me to move it to the front. Of course, it is in opposition to his current “culture of life” thinking, but he can’t think about more than one thing at a time anyway. You go gently into that good night without costing the government precious dollars that could be better spent on ousting another very bad dictator and without raising taxes on the wealthy. It’s a Kevorkian Center. Think Soylent Green without the people-eating (penis-plumping?) aspect. And I even have a slogan ready for my Center, “I’m not just the owner… I’m a client!”
Rusty
March 28, 2005 at 1:42 pm
30Following up on Bob’s comments: Personally, I’m suffering “outrage fatigue”. Nothing seems to faze the other side. Recent example: The Admin lied to allies about NK’s sale of nuclear materials. Our leaders, who represent us to the entire World, were caught red-handed. What happens? Nothing. The story survived less than one day in the news cycle. If such behavior doesn’t elicit a reaction on the hill what will?
I’m doing what I can to make a difference in the upcoming midterm elections. I’m exploring the theory that all politics starts at the local level. We’ll see. As for National issues, I’m feeling tired. I’m going to go take a nap.
tess
March 28, 2005 at 2:20 pm
31People are such sheep. A friend of mine posed this scenario: what if every victory the left manages is really just a ruse by the right to keep people ignorant of the full extent of what’s going on? And to that I say, the more power to us — if that’s what the right and corporate powers find themselves having to do to stay in power, then necessitating that their efforts need to be increasingly complicated makes their house of cards that much more fragile. It’s a war of attrition, and I find that blogs like Adam’s keep up moral.
And as for ground up old people, they need to be injected directly to plump up penises and wrinkles. Otherwise, I guess we can advertize ‘em as ground-up semi-organic fertilizers (hard to say how much of what they ate in the 1950s would keep the grass from growing).
Jerry
March 28, 2005 at 7:43 pm
32And I thought they were only marketable as “Soylent Green!” I am a little concerned about injecting foreign protein into my bloodstream. As useful as it would be to the “Save Social Security ” movement, I guess I’ll pass, and try to live with what the Great Lobster gave me (though I have encountered some repugnance at my reproductive palps!)
Thompson
March 29, 2005 at 10:03 am
33Oh, Jerry. Don’t worry about your palps. To paraphrase Ben Franklin, beer is proof the lobster loves us and wants us to get laid.