Not in the Lobby, Not Even in the Vestibule

Disgustingly dead-on Adam! I know in Germany the unions are trying (or at least were) to get a 30-hour work week. 30 hours! The audacity!

I can’t tell you how nice moving elsewhere sounds….

So what are we objecting to? This: “those with income above the state’s median income who can pay at least $6,000 over five years — $100 a month — would be forced into Chapter 13, where a judge would then order a repayment plan”? Or “divorced or separated fathers avoiding child support, and multimillionaires — often celebrities — who buy mansions in states with liberal homestead exemptions to shelter assets from creditors”? Or “from 3.5 percent to 20 percent of those who currently dissolve their debts in bankruptcy — would be disqualified from doing so”.
Sounds like the low-income folks won’t be affected. Or anyone willing to part with their assets.

Dave: Just a note:
*reference*
Utah, the legal rate of interest is 10%. Judgments bear interest at
the rate of 12%, or a lawfully agreed upon rate. There are floating
rates prescribed for consumer transactions.

Tennessee,the legal rate and judgment rate of interest is 10%. The
general usury limit is 24%, or four points above the average prime loan rate, WHICHEVER IS LESS

Georgia the legal rate of interest is 7%; On loans below $ 3,000 the usury limit is 16%

Nevada the legal rate of interest is 12%; there is no usury limit

Indiana the legal rate of interest is 10%. Presently there is no usury limit

Alabama the legal rate of interest is 6%; the general usury limit is 8%

Arkansas for consumers the general usury limit is 17%

Ohio no info

Mississippi the legal and judgment rate of nterest is 9%

Idaho the legal rate of interest is 12%

“*interest rates* on credit cards ranged from a low of 4.00 percent to a high of 23.99 percent” June 2004 and “Reward, or incentive-based, credit cards rose to a 12.38 percent average, up from 12.27 percent last week, with a range of 7.4 percent to 17.49 percent” today.

I know there is some loophole that exempts credit card companies from laws that govern other lenders…but it is beyond me. Can anyone explain this? And can anyone explain the the mealy-mouthed hypochristians who think people impoverished by age, disease, or being called up for two years service in Iraq so they don’t have the income they did when they incurred their debt, should lose everything they own?!?!

Jerry,

Under the commerce clause of the US constitution individual states may not disallow practices which *are* allowed by the corporation’s home state. Therefor, if the state in which the corporation is headquartered does not restrict interest rates, NO state may restrict that corporation’s interest rates. Guess why your credit cards, and credit card bills, all come from Delaware and South Dakota?

I fight back the only way I can: I use my credit cards regularly, and I PAY THEM OFF EVERY MONTH. Every month. Never a dime in interest to the bloodsuckers.

I also love the fact that large numbers of people who are forced into bankruptcy by horrific medical bills HAVE medical insurance. We can’t provide health care, and the health care we do provide won’t pay for what these people need, and now we won’t let them write it off and start over. And they’re probably still sick, so how are they going to pay the bills? We have to do something about this, people. I’m not sure what, but something.

Matt: The bankruptcy law is almost guaranteed to worsen the situation for middle-class filers. A lot of people who go into Ch 13 end up in Ch 7 anyways, because they turn out not to be able to meet the repayment plan. They just end up paying a lot more first, and wasting a lot more time. Additionally, the bill does not address the main way that rich people abuse the system, “asset protection trusts”.

See Kevin Drum on this:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_03/005781.ph p

It’s a truly nasty piece of legislation. It’s even managed to draw criticism from the RIGHT in the blogosphere, from people noting that just as the borrowers “know the rules” when they borrow, the CC companies know the rules when they lend. Now they’re trying to CHANGE the rules, while millions of Americans are already out there holding lots of debt and facing an economy that is adding to GDP without adding all that many jobs.

http://instapundit.com/archives/021597.php

While we are on the subject, I think it is worthwhile to think about why we have backruptcy laws in the first place. *This* is a brief overview. At least we don’t have the “overcrowding of debtors’ prisons” as the foundation anymore.

Basically the modern concept is an understanding that creditors sometimes make bad loans. Loans that we might think of as ’stupid,’ as in giving credit cards to college students with no income, or families who can’t meet their current obligations, and have no expectation that their income will be greater next month or year than it was today. However, up to now, they work like a Vegas roulette table; sometimes the Double 0 comes up, but most of the time, the players lose.

It also acknowledged that sometimes debtors simply fail in their obligations (some of which they are enticed into by the magic of plastic that lets them buy their kids Christmas presents, or repair the clunker that is their only transportation,) for whatever reason. It is generally recognized that creditors simply have to write off at least a portion of their loans gone bad, that society is better served by people getting a fresh start, hopefully wiser for their experience.

There was an understanding that America is a better place to live in if there is not a class of people who are essentially indentured workers, lumbered with debts they can never repay.

The consequences of the recent changes, as so clearly explained by several people above, is to overturn four centuries of legal precedent and common sense and common humanity. We will have a quick kick-up of the disparity between the “haves” and “have-naughts,” and the creation of a whole new class of “have-naughts” who will have no reason to try to make a better life for their families, to be productive citizens, because whatever they do, they will be, likely for the rest of their lives, poverty-stricken, whether they work hard or not.

I haven’t seen figures, but I bet that creditors’ losses have been a tiny percentage of their profits. Assuring that they will have profits undiminished by taking any responsibility for the bad loans they make, that they will be able to virtually enslave insolvent debtors, will have minimal impact on their profits, and a terrible impact on the health of our nation as a whole.

Bush praised the bi-partisan vote, “By reforming the system with this common sense approach, more Americans, specially lower-income Americans - will have greater access to credit.”

First, I couldn’t find “specially” in the dictionary but I don’t have the “Just Folks” edition.

Secondly, ridiculous is once again an option in the Bush administration. OK, let me see if I get this, we cannot declare bankruptcy when we are overwhelmed with medical debt but we can get more credit that we can’t afford.

Super! The Bush Doctrine, Irony is on the march.

OK a show of hands. All you Americans who voted for Bush because of his deep reverence for life, knowing how dedicated he and his administration are to eliminate abortions; how many fewer abortions have taken place in the last 4 years than under that godless Clinton?

Well it seems that the rate and number of abortions INCREASED significantly.

How’s that possible?

Well one of the important factors that women use when deciding whether to have children or not is how they see their financial future.

Seems that a bad economy, low wages and fear of future fiscal problems has a lot more effect on abortions than all of the posturing of Bush, Ashcroft, and all of the other Righteous Right.

So what will be the outcome of this new law? My guess is that ever greater numbers of abortions will give the RR new vigor to rail against the horrors of abortions and push to remove the godless Democrats responsible for them.

How does this all work?

Republicans are ruthless
Democrats are gutless
Americans are idiots.

It’s too early in the season for over-ripe tomatoes, Lynne, so you are off the hook.

As for the new bankruptcy bill, that does nothing to make corporations take responsibility for their debts (does Enron ring a bell?), I have two words for y’all: debtors prison!

Instead of spending their time protecting credit card companies the Congress ought to be regulating the “fees” these companies charge. A lot of people would be able to repay the money they borrowed - and even the interest - but not the fees that are tacked on. “Oops, two days late $35.00. Oh, and you’re a few bucks over your credit limit (like they can’t keep track and not let you charge over that amount!) how about another $50.00? And now we’re going to charge you interest on the fees as well as the money you borrowed! And while we give you a minimum payment due on your bill there is no way we will let you know how long it will take you to pay off the debt with that minimum payment. That’s our secret”

Don’t worry. All of these senators, congressmen, and financial corporation executives will get theirs when the sidewalk between the limo and the club is blocked by homeless people. Rude, angry, non-deferential homeless people. It might ruin their whole day. Yeah, that’ll show ‘em!

Lovable liberal,

How could calling the “fatcats” on their behavior make any difference at all? They have never made even the remotest pretence at hiding what they are. And for some reason no one cares.

One of the defining traits of this administration and its lackeys is the complete and blatant display of financially-motivated self interest. I am constantly astonished at the overt way in which the Republican Party and GW protect their own, with no apology and a bare lip service to the common interest.

A case in point is the action of the house ethics committee when DeLay was on the line for his crooked campaign finance. In the current situation it is more than obvious that GW is aiding the interests of his friends in big business. But, with the complete lack of morals and caring for the people he affects that he has shown in the past how can we expect the man or the administration to change in the interest of humanity? How can people who care so little for the welfare of those around them, much less for their opinions, be swayed? They only move for money and they already have an open line.

I believe that Murry’s parting shot applies here as well.

Oh, I do *so* hope our poor, struggling, hand-to-mouth Australian credit card companies can emulate their brave, plucky American cousins!

So when the reality of this new “credit” law finally bites home in the lavish mansions and gorgeous palaces of the single parents in the heartland, what happens? I’m just as concerned about a backlash against the Good Ole Boys Club Rules that might make it even easier for the wrong people to get credit they can never afford… In other words, who benefits most from the equal and opposite reaction? CCCs, of course!

I’m one of the lucky ones: my redundancy payment will just cover my credit card debt. Then I can use my freshly-cleared CC to pay for pharmaceuticals (now excitingly expensive thanks to the FTA that finally brings to light the horror of underfunded pharmaceutical companies, the poor mites!), groceries and other fripperies.

I’m sorry, redundancy from what? Oh, from an American multinational charity case, Hewlett-Packard. And poor Carly only got $41 million to help her find another job… My bleeds for her.

Thanks, Adam!

“I haven’t seen figures, but I bet that creditors’ losses have been a tiny percentage of their profits.”

According to Harvard Law School bankruptcy expert Elizabeth Warren, since 1997, “Bankruptcy filings have increased 17 percent, while credit card profits have increased 163 percent.”

the last two postings are so depressing. someone, please make it stop.

Murray scored a mantra, and a damned appropriate one at that.

I’m off in search of the proverbial pony. We are most assuredly drowning in Team Bush horseshit (not organic certifiable, unfortunately, because it is so damned toxic).

Jerry, I’m assuming that the 163% increase in profits INCLUDED the losses to bad debt.

I’m sure that congress felt the immense pressure of the millions who marched on Washington demanding that a handful of bankers be moved into the outer stratosphere of earnings at the marcher’s expense. One of the most popular signs (generously supplied by M&T bank) was “Please screw me harder”. Almost as popular was the sign, “Take my house, I didn’t need it much anyways”.

Adam, I love your writing, and I despise the conservatives just as much as the next commenter, but I have to disagree with you about the minimum wage issue.

It’s true that it’s going to make the lives of many American’s very difficult, as hard as they’ve had it for so long, it’s horrible that they have to deal with the kind of stuff Washington does.

However, minimum wage was not a great idea in the first place. Every time the minimum wage is raised, stores and corporations jack up their prices to respond to it, since their customers have an increased purchasing power. This leaves those who earn the minimum wage the same as (or possibly even worse) than they were before the minimum wage was raised. Furthermore, the increase in prices makes things more difficult for those NOT working at minimum wage, and so on and so forth. In the end, it really doesn’t get us far at all. In fact, it just begins the cycle anew, and the prices just keep getting higher and higher, which has led us to our current state today, where inflation has all but destroyed the US currency.

I’m sorry, but we need to stop trying to help families in poverty by taking the easy way out and raising the minimum wage. All it does is hurt us in the long run. I don’t deny that it sucks big time for a lot of people, and I sure don’t want to preach about stuff like “the greater good,” and “the benefit of the many from the sacrifices of the few,” but that’s just how things are.

So, just to ask, will we be bringing back the possibility of selling our one of our offspring as slaves to pay off our debts? What if I adopt? How about if I become legal guardian to someone? Can I sell him/her off to repay my debts? I can imagine that it’d become a rather handy reason for the anti-abortion crowd to push for the bill in the first place — imagine all those single and/or indigent mothers out there racking up credit card debt! They won’t have to spend decades living in abject poverty if they can just start selling off their offspring! No incentive for birth control or to have abortions because those kids’ll become instant cash-cows!

Tom,

It doesn’t. I’d been studying for finals for about 12 hours straight and it popped into my head like a maggot out of an egg case.

Tom,

For most products and services the cost for the people making minimum wage is a VERY small portion of the whole. If a corporation has a CEO whose pay increases $1,000,000 or 1000 employees who get another $1000 per year what is the difference? Should the engineers, technicians, assembly line workers also be prevented from receiving a raise?

By your reasoning, if we DECREASED the minimum wage, prices would go down, and those making now $8,000 or $5,000 would now be able to buy that nice new SUV they used to see on their TV before it was repossessed.

I can’t imagine living on $200 a week.

The largest increases of inflation have come when we tried to pay for Viet Nam and domestic programs by printing too much money and when the price of oil shot up. If the price of transportation, and heating increase by 30% everything else follows quickly. Compared to these factors a small portion of the public making a small amount more is quickly lost in the shuffle.

You also seem to think that inflation is a bad thing. Not for most people. It is bad for those on fixed incomes, those living off savings and for lending institutions. For people with mortgages or debt, whose pay is determined by the market, inflation is a very good thing. If the worth of my house goes up, I get a raise in pay but my fixed rate mortgage stays the same I’m way ahead. A lot more people HAVE mortgages then GIVE them. We have been told for years that we should fear inflation (big inflation IS a bad thing) but look who has been saying that. BANKERS

People receiving minimum wage are the American version of the permanent underclass. They are an easy target, but an unfair one. They don’t cause inflation. They are just struggling to survive. Any way we can help them only benefits all of us.

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We the people who put our trust in them to protect our valuables.
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lailasltn@yahoo.com

Thank You